[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[QT_Melon]

This is not about me liking or hating Zenos. I'm tired of his character arc but...

It was stated this is the end of the Zodiark Hydaelyn conflict. I don't recall anything being said it was the end of the Zenos conflict. ALSO. This is the FIRST part of MSQ, which means we still have more ground to cover to tie up other loose ends. I mean this is just part 1 of many patches to come till 7.0

So yeah, while I am okay with this being "it"....I STILL would not be surprised if he came back. I would not be surprised if there's even more than just battle junkie but eh...

[Bright-Flower]

This is not about me liking or hating Zenos. I'm tired of his character arc but...

It was stated this is the end of the Zodiark Hydaelyn conflict. I don't recall anything being said it was the end of the Zenos conflict. ALSO. This is the FIRST part of MSQ, which means we still have more ground to cover to tie up other loose ends. I mean this is just part 1 of many patches to come till 7.0

So yeah, while I am okay with this being "it"....I STILL would not be surprised if he came back. I would not be surprised if there's even more than just battle junkie but eh...

Unlike prior expansions 6.0 is supposed to be the end of its story, with the patches going toward something new and not a 'second climax' like we did in prior expansions.

I really don't see Zenos coming back again. It would be especially cheap to do the same thing a second time.

[MilkieTea]

I actually really liked Zenos in this expansion, and I really appreciated what he said to Jullus as it put a lot of things into perspective.

So what if all he likes is fighting? So what if he had a different motive, or a sad backstory, or if he was doing what he did for someone else? He still did those things, he still hurt and killed and spread hatred and loneliness. Would him having a different motive change how you felt about him?

There’s room for all kinds of villains in this story. Emet-Selch was misguided, fighting for nothing more than to bring those he loved back, at any cost. Fandaniel was broken down by the deep-seated knowledge hidden in his soul- he ‘knew’ that there was no hope for anyone. Zenos was powered by selfishness - he wanted someone who could dance with him on an equal playing field. I think that’s great. And I think the ending they gave him is more than acceptable.

It makes sense. Zenos has been shown to do practically *anything* to fight you. Of course he’d bargain with Krile. Of *course* he’d fly across the literal universe in his selfish desire to either kill you or be killed himself.

[Raiya]

When it came down to it, dealing with Zenos was more of a closure of a loose end than anything, he was what set off the second final days but ultimately was the one to unintentionally reveal the true threat to the star, he ironically after being just ignored by everyone for most of the expansion ended up helping out just so he could finally get a rematch. Beating him into the ground was more or less just to shut him up once and for all.

[Duskane]

I really like Zenos
hes not trying to be deep or anything special,
he reminds me of Griffith the fact that so many hate him makes him a good villian.

[KageTokage]

Even he himself recognizes that he is empty. The only pleasure he has is battle. Therefore, it is also the only thing he knows how to share with the WOL. The only way he knows to find fulfillment.
So you meet him where he wants to met. Give him the epic duel he thinks he wants.

Even if he is so flawed, he even fails at being a satisfying villain. We "help" him in the only way he wants to be helped.

But when both Zenos and the WOL lie dying, he realizes that while the battle gave him bliss, it is short-lived and fleeting.
When he asks if you, his mirror, found fulfillment I was thinking: "No! Of course not!"

He starts with "I...", but dies before he can answer his own question.

At this point, you see a gleaming in the sky. The teleportation device falls down next to you, teleporting you to safety just in time.

Yet when you talk to Urianger again after his CS in the Rising Stones, he says that Moenbryda's parents assured him the device is incapable of coming back by itself.
And he continues:
'Twas a miracle befitting the nature of that place, where emotion becometh tangible reality. Whence, then, arose this timely wonder? Thine ardent wish...or another's fervent prayer?

I take this to mean that Zenos finally realized he did not find fulfillment, did not find satisfaction in living only for battle. And that, you, his mirror ultimately did not find it either.
He wants you to be saved and live on. Because he finally understands that there is a reason other than battle to live or at least learned to hope there is.

At least this it how I interpret it, because the whole theme of the expansion up to this point was that nobody is beyond hope.

Somehow, I never really considered that it might've been him that made the transporter return to our side, even though I did hear that bit of dialogue from Urianger.

I think I'd also like to think that's how it was meant to be interpreted since ever since it was mentioned that Zenos really does view us as his one and only friend in one of the Endwalker live letters, I had a strong hunch that he'd finally do something genuinely benevolent for us once his desire was inevitably fulfilled.

[QT_Melon]

Unlike prior expansions 6.0 is supposed to be the end of its story, with the patches going toward something new and not a 'second climax' like we did in prior expansions.

I really don't see Zenos coming back again. It would be especially cheap to do the same thing a second time.

I think you misunderstand

I am not necessarily saying Zenos is part of a second climax for 7.0 more like I don't exactly feel that it could just "end there" I just find it rather unsettling we have a square platform near some robotic battle junkies. And who is the worst battle junkie of all?

[Bright-Flower]

I think you misunderstand

I am not necessarily saying Zenos is part of a second climax for 7.0 more like I don't exactly feel that it could just "end there" I just find it rather unsettling we have a square platform near some robotic battle junkies. And who is the worst battle junkie of all?

Ten characters yay

Seeing that I just assumed that's where some level 90 super fate boss is going to spawn.

[Puremallace]

So this is my take on Zenos.

Zenos keeps referring to you as his mirror. Has anybody bothered to figure out the deeper story of our warrior of light character outside of being a sundered form of Azem? Our driving force is only one direction with little substance other then "Must do good" and Zenos is our polar opposite.

My real question is and I think it was hinted at in 5.3 but WHO is Zenos sundered from because he has a dream of walking around Amaurot. I bet if you watch that scene again and goto Amaurot you can probably find the area he was walking in and try to match it up. Also they were going for that Naruto/Sasuke vibe here which was just funny.

[Loggos]

I really like Zenos
hes not trying to be deep or anything special,
he reminds me of Griffith the fact that so many hate him makes him a good villian.

I haven't read/watched Berserk so I cannot really comment on Griffith but tbh I want to disagree with the last part.

My intention is not to try to persuade you to dislike him. I just want to put people not liking him into some perspective.

I don't think people hating a character alone is what makes him/her a good villain. I believe one important aspect among others is that many feel Zenos is a very unsatisfying character from a narrative standpoint in particular.

There are many villains that I hate as people, they are neither "likable" nor "sympathetic", but at the same time I think they are good characters in their story. They really make the story better. Their horrible personality is embedded in a narrative that ultimately makes their presence feel "worth it" because they have a purpose. You still don't like them. But they make sense. I think that's what makes someone a good villain.

For Zenos I think many feel that he does not make the story any better (esp. after Stormblood). One aspect they dislike about him is his perceived pointlessness, the pointlessness of is cruelty, the pointlessness of his motives, the pointlessness of the pain he causes. (I mean pointlessness from a narrative standpoint, not as in justification for his actions.) For them this pointlessness does nothing to embed his horrible personality and inhumane actions in a larger compelling narrative, it's just one more reason that makes his involvement in the story so irritating and tedious to experience.

That is certainly not the only aspect. But I think it can play a part in it.