[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[KageTokage]

Safety spoilers

I feel like we were forced to kill him because there was no guarantees he wouldn't start pulling more stunts to get our attention again if we chose to ignore him. Though even if he did get what he wanted in the end, if it made him come to a painful realization of how utterly empty his existence was compared to ours, that could arguably be considered more cathartic then simply denying him that truth. The fact that he even put any thought into Alisaie's words and asks whether your own existence satisfies you makes me feel like he did finally make that realization despite his answer being left vague.

I was never really expecting him to get much development past a true understanding of what makes us tick, and that final solo fight to close off the story felt like the best way they could've handled it.

[kyzy]

Formerly deleted post with the spoilers on, lol. I'm such a noob at forum posting, sorry!

The end fight was satisfying fight wise, but story wise? If they bring him back again I'm going to be angry, but at the same time I want him to come back. I want to know more about his story, I wanted him to be moulded into a sort of anti-hero or companion foil for OUR character, sometimes helping us just for the sake of growing stronger.

Zenos's issues clearly stem from his childhood (and the lack of any attention or love he got), it would have been so cool to see that change over time as Alisae's words got reinforced and he stopped being alone, if only for the sake of fighting us, but overtime that got warped into a genuine want for something else besides killing. I love the scions, but with an ensemble cast it's hard to give everyone enough time to really shine.

Did we really need half of the moon rabbit nonsense, or the parts where the characters tell you to just do idle things because theres nothing else to do, when that time could have been spent developing the characters that needed it...?

This expac was strange, weirdly written, and I'm disappointed in it. It was a notch down from the other expacs, in my personal opinion, but then again I love character driven stories the most so I am bias.

[Miracle_Diva]

I'm one of now six people who likes Zenos. I did enjoy the final fight, enjoyed that we finally have Our fight and not another "savior"/WoL-on-Call stuff.

Also, I'll take him anytime over brainwashing and absolutely ??? bunnies part

[Cherishes]

+1 I've felt nothing for Zenos since Stormblood days and felt dread in every cutscene with him because I had to sit through it for plot if unwillingly - I would skip them if I could. But I'm here for the story, unfortunately.

Zenos being put down by multiple characters was good. The EW ending was great, but I tuned out before, during and after the fight he wanted and somehow my character wanted but I didn't want. I felt very thrown out of the story and lost my sense of immersion.

Also the punching... cutscene just felt off (and a callback to the Stormblood trailer? you leave the wol and lyse's relationship out of this.) and I overall disliked the entire arc where Zenos chased after us.

Please don't bring him back. I'm so tired of him.

[Illy_Peridot]

Also the punching... cutscene just felt off

doing it as a lalafell was so hilarious it knocked me right out of the seriousness of the scene and nearly made me cry-laugh

[MagiusNecros]

You have to appreciate the Blood Knight archetype to like Zenos. Which I do. He is a poor man's Nosferatu Zodd. Zenos at the end of the day is a foil to the WoL in that they both live to fight one purely for fighting for the sake of fighting and the other for fighting with purpose.

It's why the lines "No fight left to fight, no life left to live" is so impactful in Shadowbringers. And could apply to both the WoL and Zenos.

But generally Zenos is still at the end of the day a flat character.

The overall plotline in say Bozja was far more developed then Zenos ever was and I still think one of the best villains out of XIV is still Emet-Selch.

Zenos can't top him.

[HyoMinPark]

You took the words right out of my mouth, OP. I just finished EW before the servers went down and everything you said resonates with me.

I’m exhausted and heading to bed, but I’ll come back tomorrow to give a better post on my own personal thoughts regarding the scene, and just his character in general.

There’s a lot of them.

[Kalocin]

I liked Zenos, he's the murder hobo in all of us that play this game. Despite everything, he truly was a real friend. Not in the traditional sense but he definitely knew your birthday without Facebook.

[Callalily]

As someone who likes Zenos, I think this final fight against him was supposed to leave you unsatisfied.

And it seems like the devs set him up to be an extremely elaborate decoy by hyping him up in the trailers and the promotion art, only to have all that suspense fall flat in the MSQ.

They certainly went out of their way to make the WOL feel thoroughly fed up with him.
How could you not? We have the potential death of the whole universe on our hands, yet this guy stands in front of us in a country he ruined, thinking still only of his own satisfaction!

It was just painful to see how disconnected he is from other people, even the person he considers his only friend.

I think Alisae did not just tell him off when she said that he will always be lonely if he continues to be selfish. I saw this as her actually reaching out a hand and giving advice to someone everyone else had given up on.

And Zenos does actually think about her words, as we see in that CS of him revisiting the Royal Menagerie in Ala Mhigo.

Even he himself recognizes that he is empty. The only pleasure he has is battle. Therefore, it is also the only thing he knows how to share with the WOL. The only way he knows to find fulfillment.
So you meet him where he wants to met. Give him the epic duel he thinks he wants.

Even if he is so flawed, he even fails at being a satisfying villain. We "help" him in the only way he wants to be helped.

But when both Zenos and the WOL lie dying, he realizes that while the battle gave him bliss, it is short-lived and fleeting.
When he asks if you, his mirror, found fulfillment I was thinking: "No! Of course not!"

He starts with "I...", but dies before he can answer his own question.

At this point, you see a gleaming in the sky. The teleportation device falls down next to you, teleporting you to safety just in time.

Yet when you talk to Urianger again after his CS in the Rising Stones, he says that Moenbryda's parents assured him the device is incapable of coming back by itself.
And he continues:
'Twas a miracle befitting the nature of that place, where emotion becometh tangible reality. Whence, then, arose this timely wonder? Thine ardent wish...or another's fervent prayer?

I take this to mean that Zenos finally realized he did not find fulfillment, did not find satisfaction in living only for battle. And that, you, his mirror ultimately did not find it either.
He wants you to be saved and live on. Because he finally understands that there is a reason other than battle to live or at least learned to hope there is.

At least this it how I interpret it, because the whole theme of the expansion up to this point was that nobody is beyond hope.

It would be very strange if you can give the literal incarnation of despair and hopelessness new hope again, yet this one fool who followed you to the edge of the universe because he was lonely is somehow supposed to be beyond it? I don't see how this could be the intent.

That said, my point is maybe the player is supposed to be left slightly unsatisfied.
The devs do want you to keep playing after all, and not use this opportunity of an a ending to give up on FF14 or MMOs.

[Roda]

On the entrance

yo, my friend's and I were discussing how disappointing him being forced into the resolution was, and they made an assumption that I did not, and now I'm mad that it didn't turn out like that...

They thought it was midgardsormr knocking on the door.

IT TOTALLY SHOULDVE BEEN! I know he's taking a nappy nap, but come on, pull some hype bs and let him help and get closure for his star! But nope, zenos had to be the special boy