[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[Loggos]

I believe the writers are aware of this effect. And I don't see them unintentionally rushing such an extremely important ending.

That's possible and I suppose we will never really know. If it is what they had planned all along then I have to say I simply disagree with their writing decision here.
But as others have pointed out, maybe they really didn't know what to do with him in the end and they had kind of written themselves into a corner. They are not perfect either, after all. I do wonder about this.

But if this is not an accident, why are they choosing to make you feel this way? Is it so you can confidently deny the question about fulilment? Is it so you can share the feelings of your character who seems to have finally reached the personal limit they have repeatedly been warned about? I honestly don't know. I just think it there must be a plan behind it.

I absolutely see what you are getting at and I think these are really cool themes to explore. I particularly like the topic of our character reaching their limit.
For me personally it's just not exciting that it is Zenos out of all characters that is utilised to bring up these important questions about your character and that he is the one who almost kills me in such a crucial and emotional moment. In that situation I'd rather be almost killed by somebody else, haha.

[Loggos]

Unfortunately for Zenos, his writers didn't take him much past the initial concept/thesis statement of the character. In my eyes, he should have died in Stormblood when he offed himself. That was a clear and satisfying end to a character who had incorporated a powerful entity and failed to kill his foe.

If they had intended for him to be the WoL's Dark Reflection, he shouldn't have died after our first fight. He literally had a dragon god in him; have the guy grow a pair [of wings] and GTFO. Having him escape to fight another day rather than die and be clumsily resurrected would have been more satisfying, relatively speaking. From that point they should have started playing up the Emptiness, Despair, and Futility aspect of why he wanted to fight us more than "Me Hate-Love WOL, Must Fite!". Foreshadowing that theme at the end of SB or early in ShB would have made him a more interesting plot device than the one-trick pony he was in reality. Existential Crisis Zenos would have been much more preferable to Boredom Ennui Zenos and would have actually moved the themes of the following expansions forward.

We should have fought him when we returned to Garlemald. Now that we recognized Despair as the reason Blasphemies are "born", putting him down then and there before he could sow greater chaos and cause the creation of untold more Blasphemies was the perfect out for the character as we would have had a legitimate reason to put him down even if the character didn't want to give him the satisfaction. From that point forward, the Hermes+Meteion story would have kept the plot moving.

I'm looking forward to giving him the smack down and pray that he never shows himself again. He's served his purpose excessively and needs to be relegated to the annals of 2.0-6.0 history.

I actually really agree with this. If they had done it like this his whole character might have made a lot more sense to me.

[GoldStarz]

Honestly, if they really wanted to make us fight Zenos, they should have made him turn into a blasphemy upon realizing that we aren't of the same mind of him, seeking out greater challenge for the sport of it, and that he was truly alone, trapped in boredom.

I would have been perfectly fine if they had just left him where they did in Garlemald because, as someone who finds Zenos just a completely tedious character, I thought they did a really good job with him up until the very end. If you really wanted to tie a bow on it, you could even just have him end up dying an anticlimax death in the cold from having no one to support him which would honestly fit way better with what they set up for him.

[Hayden]

I disagree, I liked that surprise and felt it was bitter sweet moment...and the fight was fun. Kinda like fighting another WOL one on one. Good send off, if anything for a Villian that didn't deserve such.

All things aside, what annoyed me was his character, not what they did with him.

if Fandaniel was trying to be Kefka, well...we all know who they tried to fashion Zenos to be....

[QCrimson]

I also quite enjoyed the part Zenos played in the story. To me everything isn't about moving the plot forward or making perfect sense, it's also about addressing maybe less obvious issues like

bringing some much-needed levity to the story. The ending is filled with nothing but dread, depression, tears and hopelesness, so having him arrive from nowhere in the form of a giant dragon to help us win the day was a good way for the story to make fun of itself, and surprise the players. Make them feel empowered even. Which is ultimately the goal of the writers, at least I'd like to think so.

Also and most importantly, acknowledging an aspect of the playerbase that is rarely evoked in the plot. We are nothing like the WoL. We don't play XIV to make the world a better place (or do we ?), yeah like them we probably enjoy forming new bonds and adventuring with people but the main goal is mostly to feel good about ourselves. We enjoy the challenge, the progression through hard content, the betterment of our character through levels, crafts and loots or amassing of wealth. Unlike the WoL's, our motivations are egotistical for the most part (sorry to you good-doers out there) and this, imo, creates some kind of narrative dissonance, and it's quite the hindrance when you want the player to feel like they are the WoL.

Zenos allows us to acknowledge that. To say out loud that despite all our grand deeds and pretty words we are also driven by selfish motives. And that, at it the end of the day, it's perfectly ok. We might not be the perfect embodiment of light but the writers still give us the thumbs up, they still recognize us as the WoL. That's the sort of communion and resonance they are going for... Well at least that's the way I feel.

Which is why I think Zenos is great in EW.

[MirronTulaxia]

Eh, I don’t really buy that kind of analysis. I’ve heard all the ones in favor of Zenos and it’s just missing something.

I think you could do levity with a number of other options (giant Argo showing up certainly would work) or other surprise reveals. And honestly the analysis you have might work if I had any interest in fighting Zenos or didn’t enjoy helping others primarily. I’m not in it for combat, just for lore and the characters mostly. The logic suggests we should have had a big time raiding Ea archives after if secret desires that are selfish is what we do.

[Insertusernamehere]

I feel like he is a example of Xande's final desperate form.. "a hole he is unable to fill" and feels like he is exactly walking same path like Xande did.. meaningless empty after death resurrection experience and game trying to point it..

[wereotter]

I was very annoyed with how it handled him too. They never gave me dialogue options anywhere close to things I'd actually say to him. Even at the end, had it been me in the situation, things would have gone very differently. My entire tactic would be at this point to just ignore him and show him he's never going to get what he wants from me.

[MagiusNecros]

As Zenos is effectively Shinryu now I don't think he is dead as his is now the ability of which Omega and GILGAMESH share which is the power to traverse the Dimensional Rift. Even at the edge of creation should he wish it he can easily escape.

IF he did die I'd imagine his body would have turned to Aether. It did not it simply lays there. Leaves it open for him to come back should the plot going forward demand it.

And regardless if he is irredeemable without him Eorzea and it's reflections would no longer exist as he literally carried the fight on his back. Good and Evil join forces to combat an existential threat.

And Zenos's determination is to seek the ultimate fight as he lives his life out of selfishness as he only truly "feels alive" through the "sparks" of battle. Which we did give him as his just reward on virtue of being too dangerous or because the WoL enjoys the fight itself and the Edge of Creation leaves the 2 able to duke it out without restraint or regard for others.

Even in victory we also fall over at about the same time. I'd say personally that the strength of Zenos and the WoL is still equal. Making them perfect rivals.

That said he is one of few who talks to "you" as an individual and not the "Hero" you are prophesized to be.

I don't think Zenos is done yet. But if he is he went out like a boss. Screw the haters.

[Zoliru]

I would say I am very disappointed in them not using Zenos appropriately when it came to Meiteion, since meeting Meiteion it was becoming clear she could end up being the big bad by meeting some one or some entity that has feelings so strong it breaks them, so one of the best opportunities to do that is by making her meet Zenos, meet someone who is the opposite of WoL and has emotions on a level that would scare even her after all the despair she found out.
Quite a wasted opportunity, even a small reference to her sensing Zenos' feelings would have been nice.


In addition, there's a number of reasons I feel Zenos isnt dead

1) Still 0 info about his dreams of the final days, and those dreams were referenced in endwalker so they clearly werent something that was forgotten and simply has yet to be revealed.
2) Um, he is left in a place dominated by Dynamis, Zenos, a person with extremely strong feelings.
I am guessing even a fraction of his even subconscious feelings could heal him or even bring him back, remember that meiteion said "feelings control reality here" so him just getting back up could be very possible.

And tbh I want him to come back, I was so disappointed that he doesnt win the duel, it would have been a great moment of satisfaction for him and would allow us to have a future rematch on an expansion where Zenos would play a bigger role because tbh, his role was quite small in endwalker.