[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[AziraSyuren]

Yeah, he literally flew through time and space to get to us. It's short-sighted to think he couldn't do it again.

[nighttimebunny]

Yeah, he literally flew through time and space to get to us. It's short-sighted to think he couldn't do it again.

pretty much this. saying that Zenos has NO WAY of coming back is utterly ridiculous.
1. he's died before, and they left his second death "vague" almost certainly on purpose. everytime they've done this, the character has come back. the writers also have no qualms about fake deaths.
2. he can't die because of his Resonant, and Elidibus confirmed he is immortal. he has an insanely powerful, basically Ascian and maybe Ancient soul. Ascians can body hop, resurrect bodies, and teleport. he's shown he can do this.
3. he has that voidsent Yoshi P talked about in multiple interviews and we still haven't seen it do anything.
4. we left him in that zone Meteion filled with "hope and rebirth"
5. according to the expert dungeon quests, the Ragnarok, through the power of dynamis, is available right there in Ultima Thule
6. every other "strong" being that's died has poofed into aether. Yotsuyu, Ysayle, Emet, etc. it kinda shows the audience they're gone for good (Emet is a special case lol) he also didnt poof in his first death and even had his throat cut and.....look how that turned out.
7. we still dont know why he had Final Days dreams, and what exactly Emet did to him to cause these dreams.
8. Yoshi P said Zenos is a reaper for "a reason" that we still don't know, and he's the only reaper NPC in the MSQ.
ignoring all of this is ignoring facts because people wish him to be gone.

[Erendis]

Yeah, he literally flew through time and space to get to us. It's short-sighted to think he couldn't do it again.

Where would he get aether though? As they said on Elpis, universe is predominantly dynamis, Etheirys was an exception.

[Kordarion]

Yeah, he literally flew through time and space to get to us. It's short-sighted to think he couldn't do it again.

remember that it was said that the aether from the mothercrystal we used to go to Ultima Thule was used up in the process of traveling, the only reason we can return is because the Ragnarok somehow exists in both Labarynthos and Ultima Thule simultaneously, whereas Zenos would have used all his fuel to get to Ultima Thule and couldn't return. And even if he could break free of the no-longer-dead-star, his only way home is via the Ragnarok which he wouldn't know existed in both places simultaneously.

Edit: Zenos himself says he fed on the remnants of the mothercrystal, implying we used the lion's share with the Ragnarok, there may not have been enough left for him to make a return trip like we did.

[PangTong]

Zenos' role in the story didn't really bother me all that much even though I hate Zenos as a character (for most of the same reasons as stated by OP), simply because his narrative presence is so minor. Like the entire story of Endwalker could have been written to exclude Zenos and it would have made no real difference in the way events play out (it probably would have been better tbh). Which makes it kind of weird that they brought him back at all even after completing his arc in Stormblood. It's like they revived him with no real plans about what they would use him for, except that they loved this idea of having a personal nemesis for the WoL.

But for me they missed the mark on that. As much as they try to imply that my character is really just a bloodthirsty adventurer who fights for the pure joy of it, the WoL has believable moral motivations for pretty much everything they do in the story. So trying to use Zenos to "prove" the WoL's true nature and draw corny parallels with the player (who wants to be entertained by a video game where you kill stuff) was kind of insulting, offensive even. Sure some players will see it that way, but some won't, and forcing one perspective was pretty lame considering they're usually careful to leave the WoL's personality open-ended.

Like OP the part that bothers me is that you are given no choice but to agree with Zenos' assessment of you, that you are like him and fight for pleasure. In fact he even outright says that if you want to walk away he won't stop you, implicitly making our battle the WoL's true personal desire no matter what dialogue option you pick. I'd have been totally satisfied if we actually did have the option to walk away and just leave him there unfulfilled forever, but it would have meant having a completely different second ending, which maybe was impossible depending on their story plans. Would have been worth it imo. Zenos lovers get their final showdown, Zenos haters get to deny him.

[KageTokage]

Like OP the part that bothers me is that you are given no choice but to agree with Zenos' assessment of you, that you are like him and fight for pleasure. In fact he even outright says that if you want to walk away he won't stop you, implicitly making our battle the WoL's true personal desire no matter what dialogue option you pick. I'd have been totally satisfied if we actually did have the option to walk away and just leave him there unfulfilled forever, but it would have meant having a completely different second ending, which maybe was impossible depending on their story plans. Would have been worth it imo. Zenos lovers get their final showdown, Zenos haters get to deny him.

You're only agreeing with his assessment of you if you picked the first option.

Being roped into fighting him stems simply from the fact that the bigger problem has been dealt with now and he remains the next largest threat to the world's safety. We only chose not to fight him sooner because he was actively disinterested in it and we had more important things to worry about at the time.

[Skylarka]

he remains the next largest threat to the world's safety

Does he though? Because all of his antics from ShB through Endwalker does not make him feel that way. I am on team "I just wanted to walk away." Zenos has not felt threatening since we defeated him at the end of Stormblood. Even when he takes over the WoL's body, well, that was all facilitated by Fandaniel. Zenos just went along for the ride. He did not feel like a threat to me. I didn't hate him. I didn't want to fight him for any reason, not for revenge, not because he was dangerous... he just didn't inspire any of that in me. I wanted to go back to my friends, and honestly refusing to fight Zenos feels like a better way to defeat him and all of his weird stalker-ness than actually defeating him in combat. Mostly, he felt so pathetic and whiny to my WoL that I didn't have strong feelings about him at all, except wanting to ignore him. I certainly didn't want to give him what he wanted and I certainly didn't see him as the next biggest threat to the world. He was just a sad defeated man trying to re-live his glory days.

TLDR if this is the reason why there is no option to just walk away from him, the story utterly failed to make him feel threatening whatsoever.

[PangTong]

remember that it was said that the aether from the mothercrystal we used to go to Ultima Thule was used up in the process of traveling, the only reason we can return is because the Ragnarok somehow exists in both Labarynthos and Ultima Thule simultaneously, whereas Zenos would have used all his fuel to get to Ultima Thule and couldn't return. And even if he could break free of the no-longer-dead-star, his only way home is via the Ragnarok which he wouldn't know existed in both places simultaneously.

Edit: Zenos himself says he fed on the remnants of the mothercrystal, implying we used the lion's share with the Ragnarok, there may not have been enough left for him to make a return trip like we did.

I recall some dialogue somewhere in a sidequest or something saying that the Ragnarok's journey created an aetherial link/current between Etheirys and Ultima Thule which is why we can teleport to Ultima Thule and back.

[Lelila38]

The whole Zenos ending feels forced and imho ruins the climactic feeling after the Endsinger battle.
I get the impression that they resurrected him and had plans for him, which ultimately didn't make the cut. I remember Yoshi saying somewhere it wasn't originally intended to end until 7.0 or 8.0, so my take is, whatever they wanted to do with him didn't make it into the game. Yet they needed an ending for him, so this is what we got.

[Teno]

The whole Zenos ending feels forced and imho ruins the climactic feeling after the Endsinger battle.
I get the impression that they resurrected him and had plans for him, which ultimately didn't make the cut. I remember Yoshi saying somewhere it wasn't originally intended to end until 7.0 or 8.0, so my take is, whatever they wanted to do with him didn't make it into the game. Yet they needed an ending for him, so this is what we got.

On the contrary I felt it was very welcome and served to show that the endsinger is not the end, contrary to what we are led to see with all the supposedly superior and advanced races that fell.

I really liked how Zenos pedantly swipes all of that, hinting that there can definitely be more to come, in a deus ex machina way, similar to the way Emet-Selch talks to the player before with all the possible regions.