We Need that Feeling back of "CoP"(first release)

[Qfox]

I know this topic might not have much attention from players who don't like hardcore and hard missions. but i have to say it !!
IF anyone played FFXI when CoP release .. game was pushed to different level, but i like that FFXI kept level limited through 4 expansions. but in this one they give us test of low level difficulty when they make most of missions have limitation of level which push player to use very limited ability to take down hard mobs. and one of most amazing storyline that FFXI have.

we cant Forget reward behind finishing the missions was ring, >>>of our own choice<<<
which bring down the access to Secret Sea where there start of a lot of challenges.

i'm not Fan of decrease chance of drop rate, but to make too many steps need to be taken to reach to it. for example, like pop items .. keyitems etc. keep doing same dungeons over and over will start getting boring and some people lose interest of that item.

Note :
Give me your opinion if you wish SE bring new things which match that element, or not.

[Fear]

when I played FFXI I loved CoP, it took me a year to get past the promy missions because of crappy members but once you got to sea it felt nice that you really had to work to get there, barely anyone had Sea access.

I also enjoy the type of content like Sky & Sea, where you have to farm mobs to complete a set then kill em.

[Qfox]

Exactly, that why topic burst out from my memory that i had from that journey

[charlemagne]

CoP was the finest gameplaying experience in any mmo.

[Asiaine]

It may be good for those who can find people to go on the missions with them... I was not so lucky.
It may be fine for those who like level-capped areas... I most certainly did not.

The story line was fine, the idea behind it was great, I loved that. The necessity of finding people who are at the same point in the story as you to do those quests when you can do it (keeping in mind it could take a couple hours to get there, and win the fight) was most annoying.

If they do CoP without Level Restrictions (which I believe it eventually became) then it could very well be good ^.^

[Xeak]

It may be good for those who can find people to go on the missions with them... I was not so lucky.

If you were on Masamune you'd have plenty of help with that kind of content. In FFXI I must done CoP missions over a thousand times, especially Promies, just to help out LS members and friends, and even have done pick up parties with complete strangers.

On topic, something like CoP would be fantastic. It went above and beyond when it came to testing the skills of the players. Can't say I liked it after they got rid of the caps though because that took away the challenge. Was pretty sad for me to just walk through there later on my 75 and mop the floor with the Holla boss :/ (who I believe was the hardest of the Promies, but people have their different opinions).

[Preypacer]

It may be good for those who can find people to go on the missions with them... I was not so lucky.
It may be fine for those who like level-capped areas... I most certainly did not.

The story line was fine, the idea behind it was great, I loved that. The necessity of finding people who are at the same point in the story as you to do those quests when you can do it (keeping in mind it could take a couple hours to get there, and win the fight) was most annoying.

If they do CoP without Level Restrictions (which I believe it eventually became) then it could very well be good ^.^

If CoP didn't have the level restrictions in place when it first was released, I don't think you'd see many of the great opinions of it that you do now. A big part of CoP that people look back on fondly was how difficult it was, and having enforced level caps for the different battles is part of that. It prevented people from simply out-leveling the content, and then going back and soloing it, which would have trivialized it in a big way and, I would bet, result in a less favorable overall impression from those who praise it now.

As resistant as people are to something being difficult or challenging, you will almost always see them appreciate that content all the more when they've succeeded at completing it. Because it wasn't handed to them, or won without any great effort.

The problem is what you stated - it was difficult to find people in XI to help with things many times. They were in their own little cliques or linkshells, helping only those people. To put it bluntly, many people in XI had shitty attitudes in that regard. They would accept help from people all day long to achieve their own goals, but never had the time to help others - including those who'd helped them, because there was no longer anything in it for them. That happened to me a number of times; I'd help people out only to have them blow me off later when I asked for help from them. That's a "people" thing, not a game thing.

Now some will say "well that's because of the way SE designed the game. It forced people to be that way" - going with the ever-popular "blame the game/devs" cop-out instead of putting the blame where it belongs, on the players. Thing is, that's a crock, and I can illustrate it, using CoP.

First it was "the fights are too difficult to do and you lose xp". Then SE made certain parts of CoP easier, taking away that excuse.
So, then the excuse became "well, it's SE's fault for making it too difficult to get level 30 gear for the capped fights, so it's not really feasible to go back and help" - Then SE implemented level sync which also sync'd down whatever gear you're using.

So, then it became, "well, it's SE's fault for making the fights require groups". I got this excuse a number of times.

Then SE removed the level caps, but some people still wanted to do the fights "at level" instead of going the easy route, and would ask for help. So then the excuse became "you don't need a group. Just level up more and you can solo it".

And so on.

As one excuse was taken away, those people found another to take its place. The bottom line is, all those excuses were BS. It was all about them not wanting to take the time to help anyone else because many people in XI were self-centered and concerned only about themself. They didn't want to help anyone else, unless there was a reward in it for them.

Unfortunately, the only way SE (or any dev) could get people to help others out would be by basically bribing them to with rewards for doing so. As I've said before, many people don't care about anything but the reward. If there's not a pay-off they find worthwhile, they aren't interested.

I took several breaks from XI in my time playing it over 7+ years. Every single time was due to getting sick of the greed and self-centeredness of many of its players. It was never the game itself that put me off.

Sadly, I can already see signs of that happening in XIV as well.

[Ravencross]

If CoP didn't have the level restrictions in place when it first was released, I don't think you'd see many of the great opinions of it that you do now. A big part of CoP that people look back on fondly was how difficult it was, and having enforced level caps for the different battles is part of that. It prevented people from simply out-leveling the content, and then going back and soloing it, which would have trivialized it in a big way and, I would bet, result in a less favorable overall impression from those who praise it now.

As resistant as people are to something being difficult or challenging, you will almost always see them appreciate that content all the more when they've succeeded at completing it. Because it wasn't handed to them, or won without any great effort.

The problem is what you stated - it was difficult to find people in XI to help with things many times. They were in their own little cliques or linkshells, helping only those people. To put it bluntly, many people in XI had shitty attitudes in that regard. They would accept help from people all day long to achieve their own goals, but never had the time to help others - including those who'd helped them, because there was no longer anything in it for them. That happened to me a number of times; I'd help people out only to have them blow me off later when I asked for help from them. That's a "people" thing, not a game thing.

Now some will say "well that's because of the way SE designed the game. It forced people to be that way" - going with the ever-popular "blame the game/devs" cop-out instead of putting the blame where it belongs, on the players. Thing is, that's a crock, and I can illustrate it, using CoP.

First it was "the fights are too difficult to do and you lose xp". Then SE made certain parts of CoP easier, taking away that excuse.
So, then the excuse became "well, it's SE's fault for making it too difficult to get level 30 gear for the capped fights, so it's not really feasible to go back and help" - Then SE implemented level sync which also sync'd down whatever gear you're using.

So, then it became, "well, it's SE's fault for making the fights require groups". I got this excuse a number of times.

Then SE removed the level caps, but some people still wanted to do the fights "at level" instead of going the easy route, and would ask for help. So then the excuse became "you don't need a group. Just level up more and you can solo it".

And so on.

As one excuse was taken away, those people found another to take its place. The bottom line is, all those excuses were BS. It was all about them not wanting to take the time to help anyone else because many people in XI were self-centered and concerned only about themself. They didn't want to help anyone else, unless there was a reward in it for them.

Unfortunately, the only way SE (or any dev) could get people to help others out would be by basically bribing them to with rewards for doing so. As I've said before, many people don't care about anything but the reward. If there's not a pay-off they find worthwhile, they aren't interested.

I took several breaks from XI in my time playing it over 7+ years. Every single time was due to getting sick of the greed and self-centeredness of many of its players. It was never the game itself that put me off.

Sadly, I can already see signs of that happening in XIV as well.

^ This. 100%, absolutely.

In fact, I ended up quitting FFXI altogether - after playing since Dec. 2003 with very infrequent breaks - due to the absolute shadow of itself that the game had become. That being said, it was purely in the hands of the players who became repulsively "gimme, gimme, gimme... fuck everyone else", although SE is due blame as well for moving the difficulty level to the polar opposite of the spectrum with Abyssea and inviting more of said people to get while the getting was good.

I ran my own social LS, my own endgame LSs, mainly because I got sick of dealing with the corruption and rule-bending a lot of the "elite" LS's were invariably subject to. We were capable of basically the same things anyway, with a lot less politics and a lot more fun and cooperation. And a lot less botting / cheating / etc. (but I digress - that's a whole different issue altogether...)

I can't tell you how many times I ran Promyvions for countless members over the years, before and after the changes. How many people either I or my LS mates helped with Sea access. We'd even helped people who weren't LS members, because.. well.. wasn't that part of SE's vision in creating this MMO? Community? Failing that concept, yeah... I always understood when people said "FFXI is too hard" way back when, because it was always followed up with, "I couldn't get help with anything and I didn't know what to do for missions/quests."

I'm enjoying FFXIV as it is, sure there's room for change and development and progress. I miss FFXI and feel nostalgic for it every now and then, but it will never again be what it was and I prefer it to remain in those countless fond memories I have of my time there and all the friends I made.

While I'd love the "CoP feeling" back, I don't want "CoP Pt. II" inserted in this game either.

[SniperRifle]

I've seen a lot of these threads since the forums came up, I hope SE delivers.

[Zaaku]

Never going to happen with the current emphasis of hand holding and lack of progressive building of strength in character SE has a hard on for.