Some Sage Discussion

[Nizzi]

I don't think it would change much/break anything about Sage, but I would love if Rhizomata gave 1 stack of Addersting along with the Addersgall it gives already.

[Morzy]

Kardia - The healing potency of Kardia effects is far too low, I feel. And this iconic
ability

I disagree. While in lower level dungeons you will see that Kardia more or less mimics the SCH pet fairy in terms of healing.

It is even better than Embrace since we can choose who gets Kardia. SCH could at one time force their fairy to heal a specific person, but this function no longer exists.

Healing over time Kardia does not make sense either because you could constantly refresh the regen dot while spamming DPS abilities, and regen abilities like dots are not meant to be needlessly overwritten and is a total DPS/HPS loss.

it would be nice to have a more involved dps rotation

I think Sage DPS is very involved.


Consider this.

At level 70, you can spam the single target shield on multiple people in a party and gain one of the DPS triggers to throw off a Toxikon. This means that if you can strategize enough by shielding specific people BEFORE they take damage you not only protect them but gain a DPS boost by doing so. This is LOADS better than SCH 'Broil spam'



I love Sage. It is far more involved than SCH and reminds me of the 2.x/3.x days of shield healing. I generally design healer hotbars the same as other healing bars, but Sage is designed more as a DPS which is exciting.

[Rilifane]

At level 70, you can spam the single target shield on multiple people in a party and gain one of the DPS triggers to throw off a Toxikon. This means that if you can strategize enough by shielding specific people BEFORE they take damage you not only protect them but gain a DPS boost by doing so. This is LOADS better than SCH 'Broil spam'

It's only "involved" and a dps gain if you can preshield during downtime, like tank still pulling and every mob already has a dot or before boss pull/ the boss is untargetable and has an add phase later.
Even than it's not a dps gain single target because you get Toxikon at 66, same potency as Dosis until 72, lower potency until 82 when it becomes dps neutral again - if accumulated during downtime.

Rotating EDia and Toxikon in big pulls is a huge dps loss over just spamming Dyskrasia and firing Phlegmas. If a tank cannot be kept alive through big pulls despite using all oGCDs available, it's a slight dps return but never the way to go.
It's a last resort for papertanks or people with multiple vuln stacks about to eat an aoe, not a great strategy and inferior in terms of efficiency.

[nelothi]

I disagree. While in lower level dungeons you will see that Kardia more or less mimics the SCH pet fairy in terms of healing.

It is even better than Embrace since we can choose who gets Kardia. SCH could at one time force their fairy to heal a specific person, but this function no longer exists.

Kardia is a noticeable thing in dungeons to some extent, yes.
Kardia is not noticable in trials right now, we will have to see how the raids turn out.
As it stands, I just feel like sages could have a better job identity than "Scholar with a different weapon and no crit buff". It just really feels to me that square struggles to make Jobs sufficiently different in terms of play style.

Healing over time Kardia does not make sense either because you could constantly refresh the regen dot while spamming DPS abilities, and regen abilities like dots are not meant to be needlessly overwritten and is a total DPS/HPS loss.

I didnt say anything about turning kardia into a HoT.
My idea was to take the hot off of Enhanced Kerachole and instead make it apply kardia to all party members for 15 seconds. this would effectively be a HoT, but requires player interaction. I do realize how overpowered this would be, they would have to make this do less healing than the normal kardia effects. i just think it would be more engaging.

I think Sage DPS is very involved.

- DPS for every healer is important and uninvolved. this isnt just a sage thing, and i understand that some players might be okay with this, but i find it... lacking. this is just my opinion.

as it is right now, you spam Dosis, and use Phlegma so it doesnt cap. that is it.
it is a DPS loss to ever fish for addersting stacks.

Consider this.

At level 70, you can spam the single target shield on multiple people in a party and gain one of the DPS triggers to throw off a Toxikon. This means that if you can strategize enough by shielding specific people BEFORE they take damage you not only protect them but gain a DPS boost by doing so. This is LOADS better than SCH 'Broil spam'

this isnt how healing in FF works.. at all.
Everything youre saying here leads to a huge dps loss.
Toxicon is not a potency increase
Dosis does not have a cast time longer than the GCD
Eukrasian Diagnosis costs more mana than dosis.

unless your fighting multiple enemies, toxicon is never a gain unless youre shielding when you otherwise couldnt have been doing damage for that GCD.

I love Sage. It is far more involved than SCH and reminds me of the 2.x/3.x days of shield healing. I generally design healer hotbars the same as other healing bars, but Sage is designed more as a DPS which is exciting.

its only 3 buttons. 1 of which you almost never use.

[rewd]

I think Sage DPS is very involved.


Consider this.

At level 70, you can spam the single target shield on multiple people in a party and gain one of the DPS triggers to throw off a Toxikon. This means that if you can strategize enough by shielding specific people BEFORE they take damage you not only protect them but gain a DPS boost by doing so. This is LOADS better than SCH 'Broil spam'



I love Sage. It is far more involved than SCH and reminds me of the 2.x/3.x days of shield healing. I generally design healer hotbars the same as other healing bars, but Sage is designed more as a DPS which is exciting.

Toxicon is a DPS loss and there is no point in shielding people that wouldn't have died anyway. Throw a Physis or an Ixochole and you can continue your... Dosis spam. Which is the same as Broil spam. Or Glare. Or Malefic.

White Mage is very involved too if you apply Dia, throw some Glare, then Assize, a couple of Holy, two Dia in a row, three lilies in a row to proc Misery and so on.

Now if you play jobs the way they are intended to be played, things start looking different...

[Grimoire-M]

Toxicon is a DPS loss and there is no point in shielding people that wouldn't have died anyway. Throw a Physis or an Ixochole and you can continue your... Dosis spam. Which is the same as Broil spam. Or Glare. Or Malefic.

White Mage is very involved too if you apply Dia, throw some Glare, then Assize, a couple of Holy, two Dia in a row, three lilies in a row to proc Misery and so on.

Now if you play jobs the way they are intended to be played, things start looking different...

Ah yes I too enjoy not pressing buttons because there's nothing to heal. Better Diagnosis spam even though it's an active detriment to Kardia. Woo.

This game's encounter design actively discourages you from engaging with healing any more than is necessary. Fixing that would either involve substantially increasing the difficulty of most content to facilitate the active use of the current healing kits (ultimately requiring a rebalance of them to make it work as intended as MP costs would suddenly become a problem again), or require them to overhaul the role to match the encounter design. Most would agree the latter is easier, provided the devs actually had the resources and inclination to spare the attention.

Ever since ShB my opinion has been that neither exists, which means the solution is to tell them to get healer designers.

[Hysterior]

For now I would only do something with Toxicon, it really feels like it is missing potency or another effect to be relevant

[LalaLuna]

The three things I really miss on Sage in its current form are:
- An Addersgall dump ability, either a HoT or an instant-cast damage ability
- A powerful single target heal requiring (lots of) mana. Once you're out of Addersgall, your healing options become exceedingly limited
- An instant cast, powerful heal on a cooldown that doesn't require Addersgall. Once you get raised in combat, your MP is so low and your Addersgall gone so you have nothing to heal yourself with (unless you somehow can weave Zoe/Krasis & Rhizomata onto your next Druochole, but you'd have lost the 5 sec invul upon popping Zoe/Krasis and have wasted 2 good cooldowns, provided you have them at all).


I'd love to see some future improvements especially on the latter two things.

[AnotherPerson]

The three things I really miss on Sage in its current form are:
- An Addersgall dump ability, either a HoT or an instant-cast damage ability
- A powerful single target heal requiring (lots of) mana. Once you're out of Addersgall, your healing options become exceedingly limited
- An instant cast, powerful heal on a cooldown that doesn't require Addersgall. Once you get raised in combat, your MP is so low and your Addersgall gone so you have nothing to heal yourself with (unless you somehow can weave Zoe/Krasis & Rhizomata onto your next Druochole, but you'd have lost the 5 sec invul upon popping Zoe/Krasis and have wasted 2 good cooldowns, provided you have them at all).


I'd love to see some future improvements especially on the latter two things.

I don't want an addersgall dump ability. Keep that to Scholar. Don't make Sage a Scholar clone. Make addersting unique instead. As it is, addersting is mainly a mobility tool because they don't want you to spam Eukrasia Diagnosis and get away with doing more DPS than just using Dosis. Ideally, Toxikon would be slightly buffed to make it a slight DPS refund tool, but otherwise - it's a DPS gain when pre-shielding in AoE. Coupled with Pneuma, Sage's AoE kit is fairly fleshed out. The only possible thing I could want with Toxikon would be an Eukrasia Toxikon - an additional Single Target DoT, but keeps the Toxikon AoE. Not something to spam (and it's not something worth spamming with the way addersting works), but you can definitely use it in AoE and in Single Target. Imo, shielding should feel rewarding, but you shouldn't be spamming shields and be able to get away with it. In that regard, the current Sage design is going in the right direction.

I don't think we need a single target heal with lots of mana. The whole point of the sage kit is to juggle your addersgall with the rest of your oGCDs to prevent needing to burst heal intensively through mitigation, which falls in-line with the idea of "shield healing" or preventative healing. The "pure healers" are supposedly the ones with gigantic burst healing now. Let that be White Mage's thing. Sage has Haima and Panhaima, which fits their intended gameplay perfectly.

[Irenia]

Personally, in regards to Addersgall, what I would like to see is that if you are in battle, the gauge keeps filling if you are at 3 (if you are not in battle and you have 3, it stops filling, and if you aren't at 3, it fills regardless of battle state). If it fills and you still are at 3 Addersgall, you just get the mp Regen and the gauge empties.

Doesn't completely punish you if you don't need healing, but you still actively use it only if you want healing.