What Changes Does New Summoner Need?

[Wolwosh]

Honestly even though I still liked Summoner in ShB, I already thought it was a step down from SB Summoner ^^"
I thought it was great back then, but people seem to complain about any job that you have to put any thought in, and SE listens to those people...
So GG now we've got braindead Sum.
They could add a few more actions, even Tanks have more than 1 hotbar >_>

[Zarkovitch]

smn need instance cast with the summons abilities but rest is fine tbh

[Rin_Kuroi]

The ideas presented with the new summoner are good but the execution is terrible. Honestly, I really hate attunements. I would like to pick the right summon for the right situation instead of them being part of a mostly static rotation. Do you have downtime during a fight? Maybe a safe place to stand? Summon ifrit and become a mini blm for most of the fight with high sustained damage. Add phase in a fight? There's garuda to aoe them down. Oh no! A big room wide aoe brought the party to low hp. Let's help the healer by choosing to summon Phoenix. Need some burst? Bahamut! Titan. I don't know what to do about titan. Doesn't seem like SE knows either. Maybe summon for mobility? He punches stuff while you dance around. The ideas are there but they are all locked behind a limiting and static rotation. And we're still tied to the same janky pets.

This feels like the job we should have gotten in ARR. However, we're 4 expansions past ARR and it doesn't deliver.

EDIT: Also revert the bahamut/phoenix changes. ie two ahk morns per bahamut summon. fountain of flame + brand of purgatory combo during phoenix.

EDIT EDIT: The new summons should build attunements not cost attunements. When you have maybe 5 attunements you can summon bahamut and maybe 7 you can summon phoenix. Get rid of the colors. Just kinda spitballing.

EDITx3: Do something about Gemshine, Precious Brilliance and Astral Flow. Maybe when carbuncle is out these spells become Ruin/Outburst line of spells.

[Saimeren]

i love the new summoner, only pet peeve is have is that i got no idea why they decided to make garuda and titans abilities instant cast while giving ifrit an actual cast bar why cant ifrit be instant too

All three act differently. Titan is instant cast moderate damage. Garuda is super fast recast timer, so you can get 4 spells out in the time it takes to get 2 of Titans. And Ifrit has the cast times because his spells hit like a truck. It's just a trade off. Quick and weak, slow and powerful with Titan being right in the middle.

I'm not so bummed about it because of how much movement we have now. Nearly everything is instant cast, and I love it. I can bare to stand still every now and again to cast a hard hitting spell.

[IdowhatIwant]

This feels like the job we should have gotten in ARR. However, we're 4 expansions past ARR and it doesn't deliver.

EDIT: Also revert the bahamut/phoenix changes. ie two ahk morns per bahamut summon. fountain of flame + brand of purgatory combo during phoenix.

EDIT EDIT: The new summons should build attunements not cost attunements. When you have maybe 5 attunements you can summon bahamut and maybe 7 you can summon phoenix. Get rid of the colors. Just kinda spitballing.

I can agree with these. The attunements building probably wouldn't happen but its neat idea.

[Rin_Kuroi]

I can agree with these. The attunements building probably wouldn't happen but its neat idea.

Yeah probably not. I think that's my core problem with the new summoner. The attunements feel backwards. We should be building attunements across the new summons not spending them right away when one comes out. Building up to bahamut / phoenix was a large part of the fun of the old summoner which is gone now.

[MVX21]

Most likely I would expect Shiva/leviathan/ramuh next expansion. It's the logical evolution of having them replace ifrit/Titan/Garuda every demi summon. So your rotation would be bahamut--- ifrit/Titan/Garuda---- phoenix----shiva/ramuh/leviathan. That seems the most likely path they'll take next expac. It also nicely covers all the elements.

Overall while I do miss some of the complexity from previous SMN i can accept the simplicity of this version as a building block. My main complaints with the job in it's current iteration are demi Simmons being effected by spell speed, having them be 56 seconds instead of 60 drifts the use of aether flow thru the rotation which while not a major issue is a minor annoyance. And honestly aetherflow just feels out of place now, I wouldn't be surprised if they completely removed it next expac in favor of something else.

I would hope to see a bit more complexity added next expac to the frame that they've built this time. Also I've been saying for years that they need to give physick an upgrade to be a summon mog ability on a cooldown, some good old FFT feelings while making the skill actually somewhat useful. Making it an ogcd heal on a long cooldown would make it useable without stepping on red mages toes as the utility caster imo.

[Sarynth]

So a couple things I've noticed so far.
1. Remove the "in combat trigger from searing light
2. Ruin IV feels like it should be ogcd or a trait to upgrade ruin III (not sure on this one though it does feel clunky to me as is)
3. I like someone else's suggestion of having ifrit ruda and Titan being Demi's. That would also let us change their size with the /petsize command
4. Not a fan of the gap closer with ifrit.
5. Energy drain/syphon into fester and aoe "fester" feels like extra steps, maybe just do away with aether charges all together.
Overall though I'm happy with new smn, it feels like one kit working together vs old smn having multiple years trying to work together but not being the same size.

[zcrash970]

I honestly think they approached it with the wrong idea in mind. Like your jewel summons should give access to demi summons and not the current way

Why is ifrit the weakest in the bunch but puts you in the most risk?

Why have energy drain? Aethercharge and the replacement abilities fills that need in terms of class design. We don't need it. Just have them grant af stacks and ruin 4

Why are we essential casting the same spell over and over again?

Searing light is basically available when you use bahamut...why not just use bahamut to give out the buff much like how Phoenix grants a regen?

Why do we lose dps when we hit lvl 80 and get phoenix?

This version of summoner has a lot of kinks to be worked out before it becomes a fully formed class idea

[Nihility]

having the summons appear at the target or just cast from a range would probably be the main thing for me, As funny as it is watching them do a suicide run at the target it's not super effective a lot of the time.

the drain/fester stuff feels super disconnected like gunbreakers dot's too but that's not so bad to me

Would probably just make carbuncle a passive too at this point, he doesn't actually do anything you just need him summoned to do everything else