Proposed System Change (Repost)

[Aldarin]

While playing FFXIV I came to the conclusion that SE was attempting to create a combination Class-based and Skill-based system. This was done by expanding the old class-based system to have more of a skill based system for actions. Unfortunately, it seems as though the initial attempt has confused many players due to a lack of structure in player roles. I believe this was caused because the game was approached from the class based side, which has more structure, but lacks the traits necessary to support skill-based decisions. Due to this I am proposing a basic system that attempts to keep a similar feel to the initial game, as well as adds in concepts that give a class-based feel. Some of these ideas are built off of suggestion by other people on the forum. I have made no suggestions regarding content because while I am good at system analysis, I suck at content analysis and creation. Also having experience in programming, I have attempted to structure suggestions and ideas in a way that they are simple to understand and easy to implement, though there are some drastic changes suggested.

In my proposed system I am breaking the connection between class and roles. The player’s role will then be determined by their specialization, while their class controls their current level as well as what abilities they are learning.

In order to structure the system, a player’s specifications change upon weapon switch. This allows players to play multiple types of characters. A player’s specification are as follows, Level, Primary Specialization, Secondary Specialization, Title, Abilities, Weapon. The player’s level determines the number of attribute points to be assigned. The player’s specializations will have some minor benefits, and may lead to a title. Titles are unlocked and provide a minor unique ability to a character with appropriate specializations. The players abilities are determined by the player, though limited by the points available for ability assignment. The player’s weapon may also unlock some abilities, however it primarily indicates the tract of abilities currently being learned.

As this is confusing I will represent parts in a graphical manner.

Player Name: xxxxxx
Level: XX
Primary Specialization: xxxxxxx
Secondary Specialization: xxxxxxx
Title: xxxxxx
Ability Bar
Weapon

Attributes now control all character attributes including HP, MP, etc……. remove the class modifiers.

The specializations are chosen in the attribute menu:
Primary Specialization: xxxxxx
Secondary Specialization: xxxxxxx
Attributes Table

The player can have a number of specializations that provide minor benefits, an example table is below

Specialization ------- Primary Benefits ----------- Secondary Benefits
Melee Damage ------ +5% physical damage ---- +2.5% physical damage
-------------------- +5% physical accuracy --- +2.5% physical accuracy
Defense ------------ +5% physical defense ---- +2.5% physical defense
-------------------- +5% magical defense ------ +2.5% magical defense
Magical Attack ----- +5% magical damage ------ +2.5% magical damage
-------------------- +5% magical accuracy ---- +2.5% magical accuracy
Support ------------ +5% Healing -------------- +2.5% Healing
-------------------- +5% Buff Duration -------- +2.5% Buff Duration


These specializations can then be used to access titles, which give some unique minor benefit.
An example of how this works is below.

Primary Specialization ----- Secondary Specialization ---- Possible Titles
Melee Damage ------------- Melee Damage ---------------- Warrior
------------------------------------------------------------ Monk
Melee Damage ------------- Support------------------------- Dancer
Melee Damage ------------- Defense ------------------------ Soldier
Melee Damage ------------- Magical Attack ----------------- Dark Knight
Support --------------------- Support ------------------------ White Mage
Support --------------------- Melee Damage ---------------- Bard
Support --------------------- Defense ------------------------ Cleric
Support --------------------- Magical Attack ----------------- Scholar
Defense --------------------- Melee Damage ---------------- Guardian
Defense --------------------- Support ------------------------ Paladin
Defense --------------------- Magical Attack ----------------- Mystic Knight
Defense --------------------- Defense ------------------------ Defender
Magical Attack -------------- Magical Attack ------------------ Black Mage
Magical Attack -------------- Melee Damage ----------------- Red Mage
Magical Attack ------------- Support ------------------------- Sage
Magical Attack -------------- Defense ------------------------- ?????



These titles could have quests to unlock them, and simply show as ???? and provide no benefit until unlocked.

The point of this system is to allow players to have some of the old FF feel while keeping the new feel and variety of choices available.

The Weapon that you are wielding simply becomes what set of abilities you are learning at the time, similar to equipment in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. The weapon might also allow access to some unique skills, like speed surge.

_________________________________________________________________________________
Character Creation Defined. Next Step: Party Formation

First, while I like the idea of reducing the workload on party leaders, the current system does not allow players access to as much information as the FFXI party seek. The system needs a major face-lift and overhaul.

Methods of Party Creation
a. Party Seek Function
b. Party Positions Available

Step 1:
Party seek allows for the display of a large amount of information, such as how many people are looking for parties, what jobs people are playing, what level these people are at.
People should be allowed to toggle a party flag and add their name to a list of people looking for a party.

Information added to list:
Player Name, Level, Weapon Icon, Primary Specialization, Secondary Specialization, Title

Next add a search function where players can look for people by specialization.

Step 2:
Party Positions Available
Party Size is expected to decrease to a maximum of 8 people.
Layout:

Number of People to Search For: xxxxx
1. Level Range, Specialization Desired
2. Level Range, Specialization Desired
3. Level Range, Specialization Desired
4. Level Range, Specialization Desired
5. Level Range, Specialization Desired
6. Level Range, Specialization Desired
7. Level Range, Specialization Desired

Lets people know what roles are desired and what level range to be in.

_________________________________________________________________________________
Party Formation Defined. Next Step: Party Play

There is already stuff to do when in a party, most notably Levelquests

_________________________________________________________________________________
Party Play companion: Combat

Changes……
1. Removal of the stamina system
Any game needs a timer for ability balance. However there is already a universal cool down associated with abilities, the second universal cool down is unnecessary and adds to the amount players need to keep tract of. As of now it seems to serve no useful purpose and adds annoyance to many players. Toss it.

2. Shield Blocking
Again, spamming a single button is not fun, this also has discrepancies with the other forms of damage mitigation. Evade and Parry do not require button presses, why should blocking with a shield. (especially since blocking is parrying with a shield). Adjust Shield Blocking to reduce the need for spamming. One possible way to do this is to have a base blocking rate based off of the shield, and turn guard into a longer duration stance that increases blocking rate.

3. Give Area of Effect to everyone. Make Area of Effect Spells cost 3x MP and give the ability to everyone.

4. Change optimal level to required level (A level 1 character is casting Ultima ?!?!?!)

5. An ongoing balance of abilities. (needed in every game and is a continuous process).

_________________________________________________________________________________
Combat System now determined, moving on to: Equipment

Changes: remove favored classes, remove required classes.
The equipment already favors certain classes over others with the attributes. As attributes become more important there is no need to have favored classes which can add confusion and restrict variations.
Can add a required specialty, but again, not needed.

Unique Armors:
Do not require a specific weapon to be wielded to use the armor. (This armor benefits Damage Dealers, but because you are attacking with fists you can’t wear it……????)

Could be obtained on quests that require a specific level 50 weapon.
Could instead require a specific title for use, which would make sense.

_________________________________________________________________________________

While I am suggesting some drastic changes, I feel that the proposed system would fix a large number of the current issues and would provide a unique game to the Final Fantasy Series.

[Reika]

So what you are suggesting is that a primary and secondary class be 'locked' in so you cant change, allowing people to have reason to play multiple characters?

I dont think that will fly, it destroys Final Fantasies Job system. The point of the current system is flexability. And its not really confusing, It is just like FFXI in a way..

[Aldarin]

No, you can still change the primary and secondary specializations. The specializations are basically what job/role you are playing currently, like jobs in ffxi. The confusing portion of the current system is that a gladiator could be stated for multiple roles, which are not apparent when looking at a character. With this system it is easy to tell what role the player is expecting to play.

Example: two players are playing with a one-handed sword. One wants to tank, the other wants to be a DD. Their characters are specialized for those roles. In the current system there is no way to tell the difference. With the proposed system they would probably be :
Gladiator(melee damage, melee damage).
Gladiator(defense, support).
In this scenario it is easy to determine what a person wants to play, and whether or not they fill a currently needed party role.

[Reika]

That is what makes it just life FFXI. I don't think the 'create your class' system will ever go away. Things may be added to it however.

Everyone still has a role based on how they set their skills. A gladiator can be a perfect tank if he ranked up gladiator, marauder, and pugilist for all of their defensive and reactive skills. Or he could be a damager by ranking up Lancer, Archer, and pugilist for their damaging and TP generation skills.

[Betelgeuzah]

Information added to list:
Player Name, Level, Weapon Icon, Primary Specialization, Secondary Specialization, Title

Doesn't the title already determine the primary and secondary specialization?

1. Removal of the stamina system
Any game needs a timer for ability balance. However there is already a universal cool down associated with abilities, the second universal cool down is unnecessary and adds to the amount players need to keep tract of. As of now it seems to serve no useful purpose and adds annoyance to many players. Toss it.

This is slightly false. Stamina system is the universal cooldown, but with it there is also a separate cooldown for most abilities and spells. It is true that two of these are not necessary, but if anything it should be kept around for the abilities that do not have a cooldown of their own, such as the basic attacks (it can also be expanded with skills that share the stamina with basic attacks or something else with no individual cooldown).

[Aldarin]

The system is not changing the current make your own class system. the specializations are simply two categories that give minor bonuses and allow everyone else to see what type of character you are playing. Gladiators can play both DD or tank right now, but there is no way for other people to tell what their specialty is when looking at that character. Basically you play the game as you currently play, choose your specializations, and get some minor bonuses while letting everyone else know what you are playing. the title system is also simply a way to bring back old job names, which some people have asked for. titles are something that must be quested for and unlocked.

Example: a character is playing a gladiator, and prefers to play a tank. He sets up abilities to support that role and then chooses specializations that support that role. For a paladin-like tank, the player would set up cure abilities, provoke abilities, shield abilities, and then have specialties like defense and support. If the player then decides that he really likes playing this type of character, he can quest for the paladin title, which can be set while (defense/support) and gives additional minor bonuses befitting the title.

The player may later decide that he wants to play a damage dealer, in which case he sets up new abilities and chooses new specializations.

As for the universal cool-down, there are a number of cool-down timer in the game currently.
1. Recast timer - the amount of time before an ability can be used
2. stamina bar - an overall cool-down timer
3. ability use time - the amount of time the ability takes to use.

of the three cool-downs, one is per ability, and the other 2 are universal.
recast time is per ability, and the ability to use that ability is not depended on the recast timers of other abilities (except shared cool-downs)

The stamina bar is a universal cool-down, as using one ability affects the ability to use another by way of the stamina bar.

The ability use time also acts as a universal cool-down since other abilities cannot be used until the current ability is finished. proving it is a universal cool-down is quite simple. wait till you have full stamina, then cast cure; as soon as your stamina bar is full (which is before cure finishes casting) hit another ability, if the ability does not go off then there was a universal cool-down.

even with the stamina bar removed, there is still a universal cool-down on every ability, including basic attacks. This is the action use time. some actions may have a recast time of 0:00, but that does not mean they could be spammed.

[Betelgeuzah]

even with the stamina bar removed, there is still a universal cool-down on every ability, including basic attacks. This is the action use time. some actions may have a recast time of 0:00, but that does not mean they could be spammed.

And what's the problem with current pace with the stamina gauge? To keep the same pace, the action use time needs to be made longer to achieve the same results as with stamina bar, except the stamina bar is a much clearer indication of the global cooldown and getting "you can not use this action at this time" spam would be annoying.

[Aldarin]

To keep the same pace, the action use time needs to be made longer to achieve the same results as with stamina bar, except the stamina bar is a much clearer indication of the global cooldown and getting "you can not use this action at this time" spam would be annoying.

The "you can not use this action at this time" actually happens for some sets of abilities even with lots of stamina remaining. This is because ability use times are not proportionate to their stamina cost; some abilities are longer, others are shorter than expected. I have run into a number of situations where I have had stamina remaining and would have liked to use an ability, but couldn't due to waiting on the hidden universal cool-down.
I agree that a cool-down message would be highly annoying, but there are other ways to institute an indication of the global cool-down timer.

Removal of the stamina system
Any game needs a timer for ability balance. However there is already a universal cool down associated with abilities, the second universal cool down is unnecessary and adds to the amount players need to keep tract of. As of now it seems to serve no useful purpose and adds annoyance to many players.

Only having one universal cool-down timer also makes it easier to add new abilities. This means that while keeping the stamina bar is a viable option, it provides redundant structure, can be removed without affecting anything, and the removal both simplifies the game and reduces some of the future work in balancing abilities.

[Martin]

I think the class system and battle system is pretty nice atm and does not need a change, I DO like the idea tho, but I still prefer how it is right now.