Black Mage - the solution for everything?

[Kinseykinz]

Aye its true tho a lot of whm's are stuck in the days of, Don't you have cnj 50? equip cure 3 and cure your self!!!

Also While i don't like the content i think they should force locked jobs in raids like they do in Hamlet defense. I also think a reason behind all the stacking is the constant flow of 8 man content i think once we have more content with like 16 ppl this will change.

No classes/jobs shouldn't be locked in the majority of content...the whole point of the Armory system is that you can swap out skills/classes/jobs on the fly. Having your best abilities on longer cooldowns etc. is enough to help with this, but the reality is that people who bothered to level everything to cap (I am not one of them) should be rewarded for that. So while I see where you're coming from, it's not practical in a game that's main selling point is flexability.

[Jokerz]

No classes/jobs shouldn't be locked in the majority of content...the whole point of the Armory system is that you can swap out skills/classes/jobs on the fly. Having your best abilities on longer cooldowns etc. is enough to help with this, but the reality is that people who bothered to level everything to cap (I am not one of them) should be rewarded for that. So while I see where you're coming from, it's not practical in a game that's main selling point is flexability.

I really don't think that is the intention... think about it, I think being able to swap on the fly is convenient but I don't want it to become necessary. Lets look at FFXI and the macro system. At first it was a convenient mechanic to switch gear then look at how it spiraled out of control. Being able to swap classes on the fly can encourage stacking and leveling classes you don't necessarily like because it will become expected. imagine taking a balanced pt through a dungeon then everyone except one tanking being required to go to blm for boss. Doesn't that sound pretty broken?

I hate to say it bu if you give people a step they will try their hardest to take a mile from it.

[Kinseykinz]

In the good old days of classes, I have been told "ALL DDs must have second wind and cure set DDs need to be self sufficiant because the healer has to focus on the tank" now I can understand this to some degree, if a powerful AoE has just happened, DDs second wind and possibly a cure to get enough HP to live and save the mages MP, but the funny thing is, paticurlaly on Ifrit (the only content I really got to play LNC on) I would be healing myself that much, whether its alot of vulcan bursts, or while I was sorting my position out to avoid sears (getting hit by a few until my position was right) I could be riding my second wind recast and running out of MP to heal myself, but when I am at 1/2 HP because of some server lag on a bad timed eruption, I would not get one heal while the nails were up, to have a chance at surviving Hellfire, this is when second wind is on recast and cure on melees while being buffed now, still isn't enough to live.

After this its my fault I died because I should have healed myself.

Can you stop picking on White Mages? First off, you just said 'I had to use my MP/Second Wind because I didn't avoid the moves other DD's were avoiding. So YOU weren't playing correctly...how is that anyone else's in the party's fault, including the WHM. Basically, with the exception of Hellfire, if the DD's need more than AOE+Regen to keep their HP's topped off, they are not avoiding all the damage they should be. Does it comfort you at all to know that even as a WHM I only heal myself with Second Wind 90% of the time? Because just like DD's if a WHM is taking damage usually it's because either they did something very wrong, were in the wrong spot or the party really screwed up.

Also, stop whining that as a DD you had to learn self-healing abilities as a DD. So did the tanks,blms,ranged and healers. WE ALL learned Second Wind. We all also learned Sentinel...and Rampart. Mages learned -emn abilities too like Chameleon. That was how the class system worked....the whole point was you could use cross abilities.

Maybe if you tried playing as a WHM/CNJ in some of these fights, you'd understand it's not that they don't want to heal the other party members, but that they are constantly either riding red hate levels or watching the tank go from 100% to 60% health. Also, the mages are running and avoiding Plumes and Erruptions too... there are moments where they can't heal because they might need to run (due to potential animation lock). This has gotten a little better with 'running now interrupts spell casting' but running will only interrupt you if you are near the beginning of the cast...otherwise, you can still get locked and die if not careful.

...but yeah, it's totally because Healers don't wanna heal...that's why you didn't get a cure.

[Kinseykinz]

I really don't think that is the intention... think about it, I think being able to swap on the fly is convenient but I don't want it to become necessary. Lets look at FFXI and the macro system. At first it was a convenient mechanic to switch gear then look at how it spiraled out of control. Being able to swap classes on the fly can encourage stacking and leveling classes you don't necessarily like because it will become expected. imagine taking a balanced pt through a dungeon then everyone except one tanking being required to go to blm for boss. Doesn't that sound pretty broken?

I hate to say it bu if you give people a step they will try their hardest to take a mile from it.

You might not like it, but it IS the intent of the game...heck, it how the game was marketed. You can switch out your class with the push of a button...

Also, it's a MMO people will ALWAYS try to find the best, most efficient way to do something, and then do that. The whole Thread is in response to our 'BLM onry' phase the game is currently in. People are already class stacking...not letting people switch out classes won't prevent this...as a matter of fact, it'll make things worse. If people can't switch in Cutters then they WILL go all BLM, because it is safer on Princess and CHimera than other DDs (WAR burn would no longer be popular b/c you wouldn't be able to switch for Chimmy). In veil same thing, BLM will do the whole Dungeon because it is more effective overall than another class would be at killing the 2 nm's safely. (again, I'm not saying I personally agree with BLM must burn everything, I'm stating why locking classes won't help).

And really, while a couple dungeons/etc that will reward balanced parties etc (like hamlets) are nice, it's fun to be able to choose how you do a battle too. I like being able to have the option of doing DH with 4 highly skilled players who can swap between 3-4 classes effictively through the whole dungeon just as much as the LOL's of going in as 7whm's and a PLD. So yes, I hope they add a couple instances that force you to play as classes not jobs, or have every job represented or give bonuses for bringing certain classes, but that isn't the solution for everthing. Also you DO see the irony that this is in and of itself 'class stacking' right? Like what if I like running as a Monk, but the party already has a monk and needs a Bard to enter...guess I have to go Bard even though I wanted to be a monk. Forcing classes/locking players into classes solves nothing, it just creates different problems.

SE can't possibly set up a MMO that will always allow everyone to be optimal on their chosen class/job for every fight and make it an entertaining game. Therefore, every battle, mob, etc will have an exploit. Heck, even crafters know if they level crafts x,y, and z for certain abilities they can HQ easier on their main craft...which is the Only craft they ever intended leveling.

[Jokerz]

You might not like it, but it IS the intent of the game...heck, it how the game was marketed. You can switch out your class with the push of a button...

Also, it's a MMO people will ALWAYS try to find the best, most efficient way to do something, and then do that. The whole Thread is in response to our 'BLM onry' phase the game is currently in. People are already class stacking...not letting people switch out classes won't prevent this...as a matter of fact, it'll make things worse. If people can't switch in Cutters then they WILL go all BLM, because it is safer on Princess and CHimera than other DDs (WAR burn would no longer be popular b/c you wouldn't be able to switch for Chimmy). In veil same thing, BLM will do the whole Dungeon because it is more effective overall than another class would be at killing the 2 nm's safely. (again, I'm not saying I personally agree with BLM must burn everything, I'm stating why locking classes won't help).

And really, while a couple dungeons/etc that will reward balanced parties etc (like hamlets) are nice, it's fun to be able to choose how you do a battle too. I like being able to have the option of doing DH with 4 highly skilled players who can swap between 3-4 classes effictively through the whole dungeon just as much as the LOL's of going in as 7whm's and a PLD. So yes, I hope they add a couple instances that force you to play as classes not jobs, or have every job represented or give bonuses for bringing certain classes, but that isn't the solution for everthing. Also you DO see the irony that this is in and of itself 'class stacking' right? Like what if I like running as a Monk, but the party already has a monk and needs a Bard to enter...guess I have to go Bard even though I wanted to be a monk. Forcing classes/locking players into classes solves nothing, it just creates different problems.

SE can't possibly set up a MMO that will always allow everyone to be optimal on their chosen class/job for every fight and make it an entertaining game. Therefore, every battle, mob, etc will have an exploit. Heck, even crafters know if they level crafts x,y, and z for certain abilities they can HQ easier on their main craft...which is the Only craft they ever intended leveling.

Personally, idc about class swapping and class stacking as a mechanic to fight bosses. If it's available to me I will use it to my advantage and think nothing of it. I like to succeed and will do what i can to make my success possible. All I'm saying is what will happen down the line. This community(at least those of us from FFXI) are well know for capitalizing on any advantage we may find, whether it be manipulating game mechanics to certain glitches and exploits in the game the developers missed. In the future the problem will become such that the devs will have to design content around class/job swapping(like how they designed content of gear swapping in FFXI) and I can't even imagine what kind of shitfest that would be.

I'd honestly prefer it not get that far and the issue gets nipped in the but soon, even though I know very well that if the mechanic is still present I will use it to my advantage.

And I think the whole ease to swap mechanic came from the whole "lifestyle" philosophy they had going on when the game was first announced. Iirc the intent was to go out and fight, then swap to a craft to repair your gear, or go out and gather then swap to a craft to produce your wares. I really, reallllllly.......................reeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy doubt they intend for us the community to take advantage of the mechanic in an endgame scenario

[Geo]

BLM cured AIDS

[Arksniper]

Chuck Norris's first job was a BLM.

[Duelle]

No classes/jobs shouldn't be locked in the majority of content.

So you're saying all classes should be locked in the majority of content. Double negatives are a wonderful thing.

Maybe if you tried playing as a WHM/CNJ in some of these fights, you'd understand it's not that they don't want to heal the other party members, but that they are constantly either riding red hate levels or watching the tank go from 100% to 60% health. Also, the mages are running and avoiding Plumes and Erruptions too... there are moments where they can't heal because they might need to run (due to potential animation lock). This has gotten a little better with 'running now interrupts spell casting' but running will only interrupt you if you are near the beginning of the cast...otherwise, you can still get locked and die if not careful.

An instant-cast HoT would probably help. Something AoE like...I think it was Regrowth that Resto druids can cast on everyone in their party. From what you're telling me, seems like healing needs to be looked at and improved.

[Ryuko]

As a WHM, I'll heal anyone, but there DEFINITELY is a priority in my mind, and one bad judgment call can mean the difference between life and death.

Tank > Other WHM > essential members (with utility abilities or buffs that we ABSOLUTELY NEED to have) > others.

I will heal a BLM and melee DD equally... I'm not prejudice in that regard, but if I see a BLM going down fast at the same time as a melee DD, I may be more likely to make the judgment call to heal the BLM first because I know BLM are squishy and can't take a hit like a melee DD can.

But... if you are bad at avoiding things you NEED to avoid (like cracks, dash, plume, moogle aoes, garuda pushbacks, etc) and I notice it, all bets are off. Now, I'm not going to judge someone if they get hit once or twice. Everyone messes up or lags once in a while... but if you are consistently hit over and over again, it just doesn't make sense to put as much effort into keeping you alive as other people. I won't sit there and watch you die (especially if I am just standing there with nothing else that I need to urgently do), but being bad at avoiding these things AUTOMATICALLY drops you to the lowest place on my 'priority' list. I'll still keep you healed, but you are my absolute last priority at that point. I hope this makes sense.

This isn't a 'system' for me. If a person is new, or they apologize and understand they are getting hit, or say they are lagging, or explain that they are trying this fight on that job for the first time... I will be a bit nicer about it. BUT, if this person has a bad attitude, or is downright denying that they are the problem, I no longer empathize.

[Preypacer]

That's the thing though. I don't want to make them useless. I just want balanced content. Garuda was supposed to "sort of" do that and look where we are now lol.

They should give classes and damage types specific utility against the mobs. A certain type of attack/damage from a mage creates a weakness that can then benefit the melees... whom can then use their abilities to weaken the mob's armor for ranged attacks, etc...

Set the fights up so that the classes aren't just mutually doing damage, but are creating opportunities for the other classes to do their part, meanwhile, everyone is doing their part to bring the thing down. This can work really well if there's going to be damage done to specific appendages, etc.

If it's strictly "damage type", then people are always going to find the "most effective/efficient" setups for that damage type and stack it; a la BLM burns.

Bring all classes and damage types into the fold. Give everyone a role.