Audio popping issue

[Elliah-Seraheart]

Bugreport:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...63#post5771863

Remedies applied:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...69#post5777769

Video Evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLQW6ShIkJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYGu2rv3gbg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5gt0Dhwd4

CPU: AMD FX 8320
GPU Nvidia 1070 Ti (30.0.14.9709)
RAM: 32 GB RAM DDR3 (4x Patriot Signature 8GB PSD38G16002 / 1600 MHz / CL11 / 1 X 8GB)
Motherboard: ASRock 970 Pro3 V2.0
USB Stereo Headset 41k Hz 16 Bit
Realtek High Definition Audio 6.0.9132.1
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit (10.0.19042)

[GorthRedsteel]

Post into the official reddit thread from embody over here https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_from_embody/

I'd rather play a broken game that makes my ears bleed than to ever use >LE RED DIT

[polyphanes]

My information summary:

Bug report:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...63#post5773563

Initial SE forum problem description with basic computer specs:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...76#post5773476

Zhexos information request reply:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...55#post5773555

Reddit post on Immerse Gamepack experience:
https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...erse_gamepack/

Benchmark Score (FFXIV only running): 8714, total loading time of 24.203s (High)
Benchmark Score (FFXIV + Chrome, Discord, etc. running): 8069, total loading time of 27.579s (High)

Latencymon trace results:
- Trace time: 0:03:31 (while playing FFXIV and spamming SGE Dyskrasia inside house with orchestrion playing)
- Conclusion: suitable for handling realtime audio
- Current measured interrupt to process latency: 136.70μs
- Highest measured interrupt to process latency: 711.80μs
- Highest reported ISR routine execution time: 570.854469μs
(dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation)
- Highest reported DPC routine execution time: 769.682046μs
(nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 497.29, NVIDIA Corporation)
- Reported total hard pagefault count: 117

Computer specs:
- CPU: AMD FX-63700 Vishera Six-Core Processor 3500MHz (running about 44-55°C)
- GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 (running about 55°C)
- RAM: 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 722MHz
- Motherboard: ASUSTeK M5A99FX PRO R2.0
- USB Stereo Headset 16bit 48kHz (also at 16bit 44.1kHz)
- Windows 10 Home 64bit

[Zhexos]

Greetings,

First, I'd like to thank everyone who has submitted a bug report on this matter as we continue our investigation on the audio issue.

Just to clarify, my previous post regarding CPUs that are older than 10 years is one of the possible causes that we have confirmed from the investigation and it is still possible to occur with other CPUs. I apologize if my message wasn't clear on that part.

As we are still investigating the matter, if you are still experiencing the issue, we ask you to please try the steps we provided in my previous post if you haven't done so and then submit a bug report along with your system information as this information will help us investigate further.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[AsheStrachan]

Greetings,

First, I'd like to thank everyone who has submitted a bug report on this matter as we continue our investigation on the audio issue.

Just to clarify, my previous post regarding CPUs that are older than 10 years is one of the possible causes that we have confirmed from the investigation and it is still possible to occur with other CPUs. I apologize if my message wasn't clear on that part.

As we are still investigating the matter, if you are still experiencing the issue, we ask you to please try the steps we provided in my previous post if you haven't done so and then submit a bug report along with your system information as this information will help us investigate further.

Thank you for your cooperation.

I like how we are getting someone to respond,but what makes people made is,the EW test and previous game worked fine with our older CPUs

[MiaShino]

snip

This is a post most fascinating as it demonstrates clear video evidence of how to replicate some of this issue. Easy replication is incredibly helpful when diagnosing issues however, I have major problem with title of video and implication of post.

Within the first video I chose to watch you can see clear spike in CPU workload while there is decrease in GPU utilization indicating a definite CPU bottleneck here. I have utilized my fantastic mspaint skills to circle relevant bits of stuffs.
https://i.ibb.co/Mf4hNjV/p1.png - before Ambient is muted (GPU 66%, CPU 49%, FPS 132)
https://ibb.co/chxjNrw - after Ambient is muted (GPU 62%, CPU 72%, FPS 123)

During this moment your GPU was momentarily bottlenecked resulting in decrease of fps.

This is taken from; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5gt0Dhwd4

Second scene in above video demonstrates both rise in GPU utilization and CPU load. Before can comment further, are you perhaps playing at uncapped frame rate or 144hz? You may have answered this in post, many apologies if I have missed it. It is far more likely that the increase in GPU usage seen here is a result of scene rendering complexity vs the inn room.

Other question one lala has is related to OBS. Are you using cpu encoding or nvenc when recording these?

I feel must reiterate point I made in previous post. You absolutely cannot rely on temperature and hardware utilization alone.

It is significantly more common especially when running at higher frame rates to encounter a GPU bottleneck far before CPU bottleneck. You are much less likely to see total saturation of your CPU for reasons varied. This is one reason why for much time Intel outperformed Ryzen during gaming workloads despite having superior core count.

Anything ranging from architectural constraints to other system bottlenecks can easily prevent the cpu from being fully saturated, yet you will experience slowdowns. Opening task manager and seeing 72% utilization accompanied by slowdowns can be alarming as you should have additional headroom when you in fact do not.

snip

Hmm, this is indeed in line with my theory. I was going to suggest overclocking to those willing. It does appear the sound engine is making far too many calls to the audio api then it should reasonably be. Easy solution for Square would be to temporarily limit the number of audio sources preferably dynamically, this would require them writing code that can detect abnormal audio latency then adjust accordingly. Plenty of open source stuffs on how to write such code in the emulator space.

snip

Mah! Am happy I have been able to help! I am most woefully out of practice but also have many smart friends to help too. Buffering audio before it reaches your ears is incredibly common. It is done everywhere yet done so you will not notice. Increasing this buffer (I am making things simple please forgive) could also be temporary solution. However there is catch as in all things. Increase buffer too far and there will be audio delays. The goal when developing sound engine is to be certain that the game loop lines up with audio presented or delays will not be noticed. The more I look into the more it seems Square would have to increase audio delay to noticeable levels. Think casting spell then hearing effect of sound after spell is cast not as effect is occurring.

Just to clarify, my previous post regarding CPUs that are older than 10 years is one of the possible causes that we have confirmed from the investigation and it is still possible to occur with other CPUs. I apologize if my message wasn't clear on that part.

Yes, because the Embody team failed to test their spatial audio engine on wide range of hardware or to properly test period. Now Square must work with third party developer back and forth to resolve the issue. This is why in software development you should avoid working with out of house developers on mainline projects. This is idea most terrible. You do not do this. It is preferable to hire these developers to work in house directly, this means you have direct line of communication with them. It is unholy nightmare to work with third parties at times and better to write the code yourself.

Now Square audio engineering team must work with code they likely did not write and cannot fix. It is painfully clear from looking into this that because of this decision there will be major delays in implementing a proper working solution.

I adore this game but seriously, game packs are a terrible terrible idea. Perhaps on small indie project but not something with the scope and size of FF14. Whoever signed off on this goofed. There is no nice way to put it.

Also, cannot seem to replicate on PS4 myself, more testing needed. That is all!

Edit; The more I look into Immerse Gaming™ the more damning evidence becomes. Product on Steam that did not meet deadline, questionable user reviews, and system requirements that simply confuse; Requirements for their HIVE software - Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Phenom X3

Hardly workhorse CPUs listed right here..

[XenophineEX]

Yes, changing from "performance" to "balance" would actually make things worse, not better. I think they did many things at once and only fixated on the last one that brought results. I have noticed it is pretty much in tune with server congestion at this point. No stuttering before prime time, lots of it during.

As far as flooding the devs with bug reports, I'm gonna pass. It won't help. And if anything will slow things down. There is no way they aren't experiencing the same issues on a AMD machine.

As a caveat almost all of Stormblood has been stutter free. Heavensward was horrible.

I would also like to add I disabled all other player effects and sounds, the only ones I see are my own and the enemies.

And while we are talking about "sound" lets also discuss the amount of british invaders infiltrating my ears drums on all characters. Even the samurais are ol' british chaps having a spot o tea. Does no one over there not speak normal english? And the 2 twins... jesus christ... everytime they speak I want to choke them. I've never heard an accent make my blood boil but theirs does. Btw I am Irish.

[Elliah-Seraheart]

This is a post most fascinating as it demonstrates clear video evidence of how to replicate some of this issue. Easy replication is incredibly helpful when diagnosing issues however, I have major problem with title of video and implication of post.

My takeaway was, that the audio issues are increasing strain on my system - not the other way around - hence the title. But I honestly don't know enough about any of this to make either statement. Am I wrong about this?

I think it's important to note here, that I actually had to go back and reseat my RAM after this video - video made me realise I only had half my RAM showing up in Task manager. If that makes a difference at all.

What would be a correct title - for any future watchers? What would be the correct takeaway from this?

Within the first video I chose to watch you can see clear spike in CPU workload while there is decrease in GPU utilization indicating a definite CPU bottleneck here. I have utilized my fantastic mspaint skills to circle relevant bits of stuffs.
https://i.ibb.co/Mf4hNjV/p1.png - before Ambient is muted (GPU 66%, CPU 49%, FPS 132)
https://ibb.co/chxjNrw - after Ambient is muted (GPU 62%, CPU 72%, FPS 123)

During this moment your GPU was momentarily bottlenecked resulting in decrease of fps.

I am aware that I've got a CPU bottleneck with my system. I mostly use this PC to work with adobe programs - gaming is a secondary concern - officially. In fact, I was able to 100% write off all my parts from my yearly tax report. Only reason I've not yet replaced my CPU/Motherboard is because that wouldnt fly. I basically build this pc based on what I could get the government to reimburse me for. I'd actually have to pay money to solve the CPU bottleneck :-P

Now - how relevant is the bottleneck for the audio issue?

This is taken from; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5gt0Dhwd4

Second scene in above video demonstrates both rise in GPU utilization and CPU load. Before can comment further, are you perhaps playing at uncapped frame rate or 144hz? You may have answered this in post, many apologies if I have missed it. It is far more likely that the increase in GPU usage seen here is a result of scene rendering complexity vs the inn room.

Other question one lala has is related to OBS. Are you using cpu encoding or nvenc (new) when recording these?

I am playing at uncapped framerate. Yes. My monitor is set to 60hz. Supports up to 75 hz. I did record this using nvenc in OBS. Does this defeat the purpose of the video? Apologies, I do not really stream - I just make recordings here and there for personal reasons. So I dont really think much about my settings.

I feel must reiterate point I made in previous post. You absolutely cannot rely on temperature and hardware utilization alone. (...)

I am aware. I unfortunately made that video a few hours before your enlightening post some 10-15 pages back.

[MediArgentum]

we ask you to please try the steps we provided in my previous post if you haven't done so and then submit a bug report along with your system information

I was lazy to do it at first, but I did it in the end. Please, everyone do this. The more bug reports there are for this problem, the higher it will climb on the priority list of bugs to be fixed ASAP. Not to mention that it helps with the investigation, as fixing bugs the devs can't re-create is a challenge and a half. Even with my measly insignificant programming experience, I know that.

Edit: I just checked the in-game bug reports page, and it seems many of these bug reports have been moved to "duplicate bugs". Now I'm not very familiar with these forums, I only made an account to post here about this issue, but a sticky thread on that page says the bug reports in "duplicate bugs" won't be investigated. I have a bad feeling about this.

[MiaShino]

My takeaway was, that the audio issues are increasing strain on my system - not the other way around - hence the title. But I honestly don't know enough about any of this to make either statement.

I think it's important to note here, that I actually had to go back and reseat my RAM after this video - video made me realise I only had half my RAM showing up in Task manager. If that makes a difference at all.

What would be a correct title - for any future watchers? What would be the correct takeaway from this?

Ohhh, only issue was in suggesting it may be gpu issue as I am fairly certain the audio engine does not perform any calculations on the gpu. Uncertain what proper title could be though.

I am aware that I've got a CPU bottleneck with my system. I mostly use this PC to work with adobe programs - gaming is a secondary concern. In fact, I was able to 100% write off all my parts from my yearly tax report. Only reason I've not yet replaced my CPU/Motherboard is because that wouldnt fly. I'd actually have to pay money for it :-P

By the twelve no, not with this current awful awful market. I am still running one i7 4790K. These FX cpus are more then sufficient for FF14 and should they switch away from Dx11 to low level api (Vulkan) in the future you may even see decreased cpu load.

Now - how relevant is the bottleneck for the audio issue?

I believe exceptionally, though bottleneck has less to do with the age of cpu and more with the architecture its self.

I am playing at uncapped framerate. Yes. My monitor is set to 60hz. Supports up to 75 hz. I did record this using nvenc in OBS. Does this defeat the purpose of the video? Apologies, I do not really stream - I just make recordings here and there for personal reasons. So I dont really think much about my settings.

Ahhhh yup! I thought so because unless you were using some form of adaptive sync you would never see refresh rate sync to 123 like that. Also nope nope, nvenc was what I hoped you were using. If you were cpu encoding that might muddy results with it increasing cpu load quite substantially.

I am aware. I unfortunately made that video a few hours before your enlightening post some 10-15 pages back.

Tis okay! I am only hoping to assist others in figuring this out and helping make certain they look in the correct places when diagnosing. Mah! English is driving me bonkers!

The video was rather enlightening though, a 49% to 72% jump in cpu load simply by muting one audio channel is.. alarming. I believe no one here needs me to say that this should not be occurring. Something else I caught when re-watching, there was brief moment where the entire game process stalled when you muted ambient sound. Ummm roughly 10 frames I thinks. That is also well, strange.

Edit: I just checked the in-game bug reports page, and it seems many of these bug reports have been moved to "duplicate bugs". Now I'm not very familiar with these forums, I only made an account to post here about this issue, but a sticky thread on that page says the bug reports in "duplicate bugs" won't be investigated. I have a bad feeling about this.

Speaking of this, I have one curiosity door that requires closing. Would anyone be willing to run FF14 while placing their cpu under artificial load, then attempt to re-create the audio stuttering issue?