New summoner is unacceptable

[Skiros]

Honestly i think the intention for the rework was for summoner to be fast and flashy, with a lot of optimisation to fit everything in. But it came at the cost of any meaningful mechanics. Honestly i think they plain ran out of time with it. Each primal should mechanically feel distinct and you can see this with how they work ... Bahamut and Phoenix aside. Garuda is fast, but slowed with slipstream. Ifrit is Slow but powerful strikes, Titan is fast 1-2 rotation that actively limits OGCDS.

Its like they got the bones in place but forgot to account of sinnew and flesh. The design approach isnt the problem on a whole. Rotating though the summons and using them to change the spells cast is a neat design, but the implementation is where they went wrong. Too few OGCD's, and rotations that are overly simple. Heck if they had gone with 1-2 rotations for phoenix and Titan a, 1,1,1,1,2 for Garuda and maybe a 1-2-3 for Ifrit with some OCGD's to weave, it would make the job feel more active.

Honestly though, even if they made bahamut spells casted rather than instants, it would balance out the variance and give more to consider. Its why i dont think its wholly bad, it just needs small nudges here and there to fullly complete.

The biggest challenge they face, if they ever think to address it is to make Arcanum summons feel more like summons. I suspect they land and then imediately vanish because they wanted to differentiate them from the demi's.

Once adjustment they could make is to give the arcanums a chargable bar that mean they only do the enkindle ability if you manage to weave in all abilities ... but i dont really know how that would work in practice.

Carbuncle im not really sure what the philosophy behind him is other than a means to give Egi-Gamour without worrying about attack animations. i guess.

What is there to optimize to fit everything in lol

If anything the optimization on SMN is to figure out what to NOT fit in. It's routine for SMN to drop rites for optimal damage in the presence of downtime.

[Vahlnir]

I don't trust them at all these days with "future plans" after seeing how those future plans panned out for MCH.

To each their own I guess.

[IdowhatIwant]

Because the game has too many simple jobs and not enough complex jobs, and with the rework, they removed yet another complex job. I fail to see why every single job in the game needs to be simple but that is the route they have been heading down for a couple expansions now.

Was old summoner really considered complex?
Was old machinest really considered complex?

Summoner suffered a lot from button bloat and a very long rotation that was heavily punished(more so than other classes) by a death. It also was very poorly designed in ShB until they did a small rework on the pet actions to make the class flow better.
Machinest relied on RNG to much, from the rotation, to your wild fire it was all heavily based on RNG.

Are they easier now? Yes
Do they still have issues? Yes

People stated Reaper was complex before it's release and at the beginning of the expansion. It is just a melee machinest but a nice shield, an aoe buff, and gcd instead of a pet.

[Starshower]

Maybe for you it's bad. For me, It's my favorite job now! I never played summoner before because I couldn't grasp it's rotation, but now, It's surpassed red mage as my favorite job!
Yes, it's easy! But there is a place for that. I love easy jobs! And liking easy jobs isn't bad in itself! It's a shame they took from you the summoner you liked, just find a new job now! They took my favorite job once as well (Stormblood samurai) and made it into an overcomplicated mess I can't like anymore. I'm personally very happy with the new summoner and I want to enjoy it like this for at least this expansion!

[Shougun]

I don't get that vibe from them honestly. Rather, it just seems like they're now taking feedback from players who don't care about the game that much, or who don't know what they're talking about. If anything they should listen less to feedback from players who demonstrably are unable to achieve or excel in their roles. They should not be taking feedback on SMN from people who don't even have it leveled at 90.

It was a small change but the first change to the job after release was to increase the fire birb damage, a suggestion that if you didn't make I'm certain someone you agreed with made.

I don't think they're beelining people who don't master the job. I also don't think they should beeline for only those who master a job, I find those who tend to play a lot (not exclusively those who master do so, to note, just generally will be the case) if you listen to too much will slowly make the game more like a job and less like a game (for the rest of the players not like them). Something that makes FFXIV popular, I believe (to the point of being a near core tenant, if not actually), is that the game is generally NOT a job and doesn't do some of the classic MMO tropes of time killing (things they did in ARR they have each expansion tried to make less a part of their game, and it seems each step they make the game does better- not worse). There is some of course, as there absolutely should be, particularly the content that is freshly released for those more hardcore players, but it mostly slides down the hill and becomes more accessible and less extreme like (sans ultimate, though I know that gets a little easier with each expansion).

Like if you listen to only streamers who play the game as literal work, you'd start to align it more to how they approach the game.. literally their job with excess of time and including with a number of unique situations that the average user will not have access to. Classically referred to as 'streamer privilege's', which is a bit unfair since there are also cons to being a streamer, but on the privilege side one example is, if you're big enough to earn the privilege lol... groups on demand, even for obscure / old content - making their perspective a bit necromancer in capacity that most wont get, being one for example.

So I think it is important to actively listen to all parties, and find balance based on the goal of the game (which imo is generally casual friendly with an important pocket of content dedicated to the more hardcore at the end of the tunnel). Trying to meet that in all jobs but occasionally it might be wise to bias a group so like one job is for hardcore players, generally, and another for softcore.. lol. More important the numbers come out right in the end though, as that isn't something you can bias to one group very well unless you're doing limited jobs I guess.. (so the job definitely still needs some polish on the number end, given RDM is doing better and has better support at the same time too - last I checked). Like I think it's okay, and perhaps even good, to have a more straight forward white mage next to a more complicated yet similarly balanced alternative option (basically anything not white mage... XD).

The unfortunate nature here being the job is not new, it was changed, which makes it rough if people had a preference to the past. Though I do believe that in our current state we are in a good position to just add a few more layers in key locations such that it's more exciting for those who need it but is still relatively smooth and low button presence as it is now (I find low button part particularly neat, as I usually play Paladin which is a button pig... so having only two bars is just weirdly refreshing, also I've played MOBAs with only 5 keys and that is great fun, sheer number of buttons imo should never be seen as 'amount of fun' not that you were suggesting that, just a general statement). As some people have said simply hitting 86 has made it feel better, though some said it's not (but it has been a point that helps for some people). So perhaps they bring 86 down earlier and introduce another mechanic later? Or that later mechanic sooner, etc. Trying to ensure whatever is added can be neatly folded into the mix rather than perhaps a more difficult situation which was ShB summoner where adding a new mechanic might have been like adding a knife into juggling a ball a car and a chocobo.

I hope I've been consistent on not relishing other's disappointment, even to myself it is a bit simple (though it doesn't bother me either, which does make a difference from some people's feeling), but I also don't think it is particularly constructive, or true in this case, to say SE only listens to people who just don't understand the game (and therefore you could transitively suggest that SE themselves doesn't understand the game). The major change they made due to feedback was presentation and general theme focus, which it seems to have gone over relatively well with the majority of people- even those upset about the gameplay portion. The gameplay change had elements of player feedback but no player, as far as I am aware, made such a detail change that it excluded complexity - that was, imo, strongly just SE's choice and not at the fault of some player. A choice which I don't think is inherently evil / wrong, but I can see how given this being a pre-existing job that it could easily cause more frustration than just introducing a straight forward job, and I think asking / suggesting tweaks is fair game (though in general I'm always one for feedback, at least to me that is THE purpose for the forums). I also believe that SE has the ability to take their current design and tweak it easier than previously, and hence why I call it a good foundation, which is where suggestions may be valuable (including both the why and what).

Personally I strongly believe they listen to feedback, with a lot of evidence if you look at longer timeframes, just perhaps the time frames make it hard to see and the lack of communication making it less obvious on top of it.

[Demolisher]

Some will call this unhinged... Me, I call them truth.

[Dzonathan]

Because the game has too many simple jobs and not enough complex jobs, and with the rework, they removed yet another complex job. I fail to see why every single job in the game needs to be simple but that is the route they have been heading down for a couple expansions now.

Because game devs finally realized that complex jobs that require piano play is in fact not fun for majority, nor the sentiment or prestige is worth it.
We're casual gamers here. Anyone who wants some serious gaming creed and clout would choose to play a proper esport game.
FFXIV aint it.

[fulminating]

This is the most obvious troll comment I've seen since yesterday. Truly the game is in the doldrums if people are coming here to post that calibre of bait in the hopes of entertainment.

[Payadopa]

Yeh, because not wanting to fall asleep in a dungeon is apparently akin to starting a professional eSports career. lol

[Dzonathan]

Yeh, because not wanting to fall asleep in a dungeon is apparently akin to starting a professional eSports career. lol

Mate. MMOs are grindy.
Your mistake was expecting constant excitement.