New summoner is unacceptable

[JohncarterIx]

Do yall know were to find the demond chest for gear turn in new to ffx14 i got to 68

[Kogasan]

I like the new smn. The old smn seemed weak imo. This new smn makes it feel more like a summoner. If you want simple smn go take a look at ffxi smn it was simple.

[zcrash970]

From what I see, the people who actually like the new SMN have the same opinion where they love the job fantasy and aesthetic.

Meanwhile the people who don't like it, actually see the issues because they care about the job at a more technical standpoint.

I'm not very surprised the divide here. It's been around since SMN's inception basically, but I have to agree with the disagreers on this one.

I love how the job *looks* and it's what I've been asking for in years, but it really is lacking a LOT gameplay-wise.
Basically Ruin Mage in 5 different shades. Insta-cast galore with barely anything to weave in-between them along with some other issues. It's extremely basic.

This right here. People that actually played smn at a high level and/or stick with it through all the rough patches can see how this is a mess from technical standpoint. It is so bad.

SE reworks are usually bad but this takes the cake and then some. When DRK and MCH received their rework it was met with caution but people started see why some changes were made. Mch battery gauge was a great change to turrets operated and overheat, while a boring changed, did give the class some actual flow.

But this rework of smn didn't fix anything. They just slapped a new coat of paint on it and called it a day. I just now have the powers of a rainbow

[Blackcanary]

I like the new smn. The old smn seemed weak imo. This new smn makes it feel more like a summoner. If you want simple smn go take a look at ffxi smn it was simple.

I loved Final Fantasy XI summoner including the fact that you had ur main job and ur sub job. So I would also combine my SMN with Red mage. It was the best of both worlds. I miss being able to summon Shiva and Fenrir.
But I love this new Summon I feel powerful and love the fact that we can now Summon are own versions of Premal's that don't look like baby candy versions of them. From here own I have a feeling it will get better with better and more attacks for you to command out for ur Summon to do. Now just give us more Primal's for us to summon. Give Shiva SE and let her Diamond Dust attack be AOE please. Also @mods please move this tread to another thread that has to do with Summoner in the DPS section of the forum it shouldn't be in General Discussion.

[Blackcanary]

Honestly I don't know why other than "SE reasons" they couldn't have include the other 3 primals in the mix. DWT = Umbral Summons (Titan, Leviathan, Ramuh) and FWT = Astral Summons (Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda). Each summon could have added a Elemental debuff increasing the power of the next summon in the rotation.

Nor do I understand why the felt the need to basically delete pets all together. You could have had, say Summon Garuda II, then when she leaves instead of carbuncle you have Garuda Egi on Sic auto attack until the next summon is cast.

As for DoTs, don't tell me when you run a dungeon you don't miss placing DoTs on a whole pack as the tank drives them down the field.

Egi's look stupid as hell. But if you want ur Egi's back so bad dude just do a Egi Glamour. So When when you summon Ruby Carbuncle you get ifrit egi instead. Its not that hard to do.

[Dyvid]

Egi's look stupid as hell. But if you want ur Egi's back so bad dude just do a Egi Glamour. So When when you summon Ruby Carbuncle you get ifrit egi instead. Its not that hard to do.

That's nice, doesn't change the fact that carbuncle is nothing more than a useless minion.

[Skiros]

This right here. People that actually played smn at a high level and/or stick with it through all the rough patches can see how this is a mess from technical standpoint. It is so bad.

SE reworks are usually bad but this takes the cake and then some. When DRK and MCH received their rework it was met with caution but people started see why some changes were made. Mch battery gauge was a great change to turrets operated and overheat, while a boring changed, did give the class some actual flow.

But this rework of smn didn't fix anything. They just slapped a new coat of paint on it and called it a day. I just now have the powers of a rainbow

Exactly. It's not an either-or situation. You can design a job that is both accessible at a basic level, require thought at a high level, and have awesome animations. Square Enix doesn't seem to know how to do all three.

[Fyffer]

Final Fantasy XI would like a word with you. When you summon avatars, you can use them to heal the party, cast buffs, enfeebles, and attack enemies with strong physical or magical damage. Ramuh can stun all enemies in range. Garuda can cast large party heals. Ifrit grants attack boosts. Diabolos grants an AOE MP restore over time. So yeah, FFXI summoner is the best iteration of summoner the franchise has ever had, with the summoner controlling the avatar's actions and the avatar dealing all of the damage.

I would so very much love a summoner like that here.

[Rin_Kuroi]

while the ff11 smn sounds pretty cool i don't see it working in ff14 without another overhaul. i admit it would be pretty bad ass. your summon could determine which role you are and you'd have to select it before queueing for a duty. 4 roles in one? the other jobs would revolt or everyone would just be playing a summoner.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

Personally I think the Idea that the Devs had with EWSMN has potential in and of itself, but the implementation is very lackluster.

To put it concisely:
If you're hinging so much of a Jobs identity on mechanically and visually distinct phases then that identity needs to be there throughout the leveling experience and not just thrown in a few levels before cap.

Shine/Brilliance are not enough to carry the 'personality' of the phases on their own, and reusing the current Ruin/Outburst Animations isn't helping matters.
Both the Gem-stral Flows and summon specific animations need to be there much sooner.

Egis could use a bump in size to be easier to see if you're not willing to give High Summoning sooner; for supposedly being a main feature of the job they get drowned out by every other Jobs animations by level 70, and yet only get replaced at 90...

While it's nice to have Carbuncle there, the utility he's supposed to provide is greatly lessened by the constant (re)summoning going on, which still leads to ghosting.

Speaking of ghosting, personally I feel Summons as a whole are actually kind of disconnected from the rotation since they can ghost actions entirely without affecting much, and while I understand why it's designed that way it still feels odd.

On a more personal side: I always liked how SMN in XIV was presented as a capable caster even outside of their Summoning Skillset; however this aspect feels very stripped down. While Rekindle is nice to have, I'd still have preferred if they' do just fixed Physick. And I don't want to lose Rez either. Let the Caster be the utility guy and the Summons (and related concepts) do the damage.

Overall: Idea has potential, implementation is meh; needs a redesign of the leveling experience, some spruced up low level animations (at least colour code Ruin/Outburst if you're going to reuse them), maybe combine Summon Carbuncle into Infusion and make his abilities usable by the Summoner, to make the Utility more consistent

I really don't think there need to be so much defensiveness if someone points out an issue; it's unlikely SE is gonna go back entirely, but if a relatively sizable Group of players realize the same issues then SE needs to be made aware so they can be fixed.

(Sorry if this post feels robotic, too sleepy for personal flair, lol)