New summoner is unacceptable

[Rin_Kuroi]

summoner summon strong beings to aid him and that is true just now.

I'm really not feeling this. We're still tied to the janky pets. The new summons are kinda bland, just spamming one button or another (though that may change at 90). Both bahamut and phoenix feel weaker than they did before because of the lowered duration and change to mechanics. Carbunkle just stands around doing nothing most of the time. Not even auto attacking. Just staring at the player. There's not a lot to distinguish one pet from another.

I'm trying to be open minded, been waiting on the story and been running dungeons, etc to get a feel for all the changes. One thought keeps going through my mind. This is not better. SE can do better.

[eva3071]

Summoner main since 4.0. While I haven't got to try out the job in 2.0-3.0, have been playing the job since then. The new Summoner is vastly superior then the junk job it was before 6.0. If it was for the gameplay mechanics, I wouldn't have even been a summoner main were it not that I was a summoner main in FFXI, and wanted to continue the tradition in FFXIV. While I know the loud minority will take to the forums and screech about the rework, many more of us are enjoying the rework. Summoner feels like the Summoner it should always have been. Honestly, I wouldn't have even posted in this thread, were it not that I thoroughly enjoy the salt coming from the nay-sayers who had kept the Summoner from what it should have been.

[Riusvell]

It is sad for people who loved the job how it used to be, but Arcanist/Scholar/Summoner is massively popular as the noob job for new players coming into the game. I think it is fine if one dps/healer/tank job has a more simplistic rotation. I started with this job and it is often recommended to new players due to the diversity of job. I've moved on to other jobs now but out of all the jobs I have played, I found Summoner to be the most clunky, it seemed unnecessarily convoluted and was extremely difficult to put out some decent numbers if your ping wasn't so hot, the pet seemed to not trigger a lot of the spells it was meant to cast.

We had Red Mage for this though, which is why it's unnecessary for Summoner to be even changed to this extent.
Bard as well.

This isn't a reason why Summoner had to be toned down so hard, with that logic... DRG, MNK, BLM, WAR, PLD should all be extremely simple and mind-numbing jobs because new players can select it. Because I see lots of BLMs, DRGS and BRDs being played by new players.

No, some players need to challenge themselves to enjoy a game. Which won't happen if the thing they liked is now well... this.

To the poster above me;
Nice civil discussion you are sparking here. Trying to provoke people into lashing out at you because of the claims you make.
I want the class to be generally enjoyable to everyone that plays Summoner. Yet now we are at a stage where people are happy with basically a glass that's been filled for 30%.

The class feels like a level 60 one at level 80, which is a design flaw on itself.
It's boring, it's repetitive and it does not feel as if you're summoning at all. Which I have pointed out several times.
The job simply is not done yet, there are things that need to be fixed and the sooner that's addressed, the sooner this discussion stops and we stop being at each other's throats.

Remember, people loved this class. Even despite it's jank and bugs.
I never cared for it's damage, I love the Summoner job in FF in general. But it's doing the Summoners before us a disservice calling this a Summoner, if our Summons legitimately do not even feel like they belong. While the egi's were a problem, this is worse.

[Skiros]

OK, like I'm having a seizure from reading some of the comments in this thread.

I like the aesthetics and theme of the new Summoner. What I don't like is that it basically feels unfinished and is about as complex as an amoeba.

I don't care that much about DoT management. I don't care that much about pet micros. I don't have an attachment to old SMN.

Removing those aspects is fine in itself, if they actually offered a meaty replacement. But they did not. SMN right now is a barebones one-hotbar job with zero complexity to speak of.

Why are we not adding more skills in each Summon window that is more than just press 1 or Gemshine? How about using Fire, Wind, and Earth attunements to meaningfully change what you can do in a Bahamut window? What about varied gameplay within each Summon window? For example, in Ifrit, on top of the gapcloser that we have, why not make the grimoire turn into a flaming sword that you can use to attack the enemy, for which you have to be in melee range for, but also keep the Fire Attunement Gemshine? In Titan, what about a skill that allows you to apply earthy shields onto the party that deals reflected damage to a boss? In Garuda, how about creating a vortex that gives you a boost to wind damage if you stand in it? Those are little things that will not make a baseline acceptable gameplay too hard for players, but add more optimization decisions to the rotation (by thinking about when Titan is best used in an encounter to maximize reflected damage, thinking about when you can stand in melee range, and thinking about when you can stand in a Ley Lines-equivalent during an encounter). They are optional, but they will be fun to think about. A proper summoner theme vis-a-vis the traditional FF style and complexity does not have to be mutually exclusive.

Current SMN is just a braindead job that any monkey with two brain cells can play. Not only that but it just feels like it's unfinished.

The false dichotomy between complexity and theming gives me a headache. I honestly regret taking the forums seriously sometimes.

[Zarkovitch]

With what they try since day one. I think it a good base structure for the future of smn. But definitely, spammy and I'm somewhat fine with it.

[Enjuden]

so its just like dancer now, i dont see how thats a badthing

A game without complexity isn't a game. It's an interactive movie.

[CrimsonGunner]

I'm really not feeling this. We're still tied to the janky pets. The new summons are kinda bland, just spamming one button or another (though that may change at 90). Both bahamut and phoenix feel weaker than they did before because of the lowered duration and change to mechanics. Carbunkle just stands around doing nothing most of the time. Not even auto attacking. Just staring at the player. There's not a lot to distinguish one pet from another.

I'm trying to be open minded, been waiting on the story and been running dungeons, etc to get a feel for all the changes. One thought keeps going through my mind. This is not better. SE can do better.

thats why i said it is bareboned, also i dont think carbuncle must attack monster but he can be like your main pet that you command and use to channel the primals really.(like a tamer with a small cute pet that his travel companion)
hmm tbh right now bahamut and phoenix work the same as they did before.
bahamut attacks just not when u cast ruin but attacks all the time he is there, your enkindle is much the same now its more like firebird trance where he changes ruin and outburst(tri disaster) to his versions of spells which makes him the same as phoenix.
phoenix is also the same way only now his single target dont trigger his aoe . they are seperate actions so maybe that diminish the effects but phoenix still has revelation and instead of everlasting flight he gives a self regen, not sure how strong that regen is but phoenix and bahamut are still strong as they were, the only thing you lose is building dreadwyrm aether with the trance but he is the same phase as he was only better cause he got firebird trance treatment.

i think it just looking at it a bit to notice the strengths that you got then focus on what you lost and tbh the only things i saw that were lost was the building for ruin 4 and the trance buildup to use the extra button summon bahamut and extra button for his enkindle.
but i prefer it the way it is now in EW cause those buttons were redundant and i prefer to focus on the summons more then the buildup to call them but that is just my thoughts on it.

[Sarynth]

I care less about the loss of dots, and the sorry excuse for pets than I do the gaping void where a job mechanic should be.
Particle effects are only 50% of a job's identity. We need interaction that's more than just "push button, see number"
Even other simple, straightforward jobs have SOMETHING. (dnc, combos, procs, feathers, esprit, dance minigame. mch, two gauges to build and spend. RDM, mana, procs, combos)

Give me something to build and work on while I'm just pressing 1111, and it'll be fine, maybe even alright.

I think aetherflow and carbuncle behavior are the most likely slots to be filled for any kind of job influencing mechanic. (WHY IS RUIN IV??? WHY IS IT HERE??? IT'S SO TACKED ON IT'S SAD.)

Also where's my mana?



This was never ShB SMN unless the one missed button was a directional key to dodge a killshot.

Gotta agree with you there ruin iv feels like it should have been a trait ie ruin iii > ruin iv at x level. Other than that I love the new smn

[Rin_Kuroi]

thats why i said it is bareboned, also i dont think carbuncle must attack monster but he can be like your main pet that you command and use to channel the primals really.
hmm tbh right now bahamut and phoenix work the same as they did before.
bahamut attacks just not when u cast ruin but attacks all the time he is there, your enkindle is much the same now its more like firebird trance where he changes ruin and outburst(tri disaster) to his versions of spells which makes him the same as phoenix.
phoenix is also the same way only now his single target dont trigger his aoe but they are seperate actions so maybe that diminish the effects but phoenix still has revelation and instead of everlasting flight he gives a self regen, not sure how strong that regen is but phoenix and bahamut are still strong as they were, the only thing you lose is building dreadwyrm aether with the trance but he is the same phase as he was only better cause he got firebird trance treatment.

i think it just looking at it a bit to notice the strengths that you got then focus on what you lost and tbh the only things i saw that were lost was the building for ruin 4 and the trance buildup to use the extra button summon bahamut and extra button for his enkindle.
but i prefer it the way it is now in EW cause those buttons were redundant and i prefer to focus on the summons more then the buildup to call them but that is just my thoughts on it.

carby doesn't really do much. he has a few spells tied to him which are situational. most of the time he just stands around doing nothing.

bahhamut and phoenix aren't the same. the main part that's missing is enough time for 2x enkindles. it was a bit of a skill test to ensure you got both off during the window. also with bahamut you wanted enough further ruin built up to go along with wyrmwave. phoenix had the 1-2 punch of fountain of fire + brand of purgatory. now its just summon, enkindle, spam. its just so boring. building up to your bigger summons was fun. it was a joy to summon bahamut and phoenix. now they are the same as the other summons. it just feels like 5 copy and pasted game mechanics in one job.

then there's all the other problems i mentioned earlier in the thread.

[jadan2000]

sorry, but i like it... it a breath of fresh air to not have to micromanage this class for the 11 years ive been playing it.