New summoner is unacceptable

[Floortank]

Why are we not adding more skills in each Summon window that is more than just press 1 or Gemshine? How about using Fire, Wind, and Earth attunements to meaningfully change what you can do in a Bahamut window? What about varied gameplay within each Summon window? For example, in Ifrit, on top of the gapcloser that we have, why not make the grimoire turn into a flaming sword that you can use to attack the enemy, for which you have to be in melee range for, but also keep the Fire Attunement Gemshine? In Titan, what about a skill that allows you to apply earthy shields onto the party that deals reflected damage to a boss? In Garuda, how about creating a vortex that gives you a boost to wind damage if you stand in it? Those are little things that will not make a baseline acceptable gameplay too hard for players, but add more optimization decisions to the rotation (by thinking about when Titan is best used in an encounter to maximize reflected damage, thinking about when you can stand in melee range, and thinking about when you can stand in a Ley Lines-equivalent during an encounter). They are optional, but they will be fun to think about. A proper summoner theme vis-a-vis the traditional FF style and complexity does not have to be mutually exclusive. And complexity does not have to be mutually exclusive with accessibility, by making sure that the room for optimization is optional and largely do not rely on button bloat.

I haven't gotten to try new SMN yet, so I have no comment on whether it's good or bad, but these ideas are really good, and illustrate your criticism well. I'll be looking forward to testing the game against your complaint, so I thank you for this. I didn't main SMN before but I do recall the lack of fun in its old rotation so I'll be testing against that, too.

I think your ideas here come from a meritorious place, though I do think that a leylines style addition to SMN wouldn't work with its high mobility phases. It's not a caster built to be anchored to a spot. Your post was good though, thank you.

[hazelmoon]

As a newer player (mostly playing summoner at the moment, level 56), I was worried I had missed some of the class quests so made sure to catch up completely on them...

Aaaand... I didn't miss anything. Ruin spam really seems to be it, in between the very long summon cooldown spam.

I think I'm going to try Dancer in a few levels, as my only other 2 classes currently at the same level are healers (just want a break from healing). Not really sure what to play at the moment. Drowning in content (in a good but slightly overwhelmed way) but sadly not happy with my current class decision.

[Ralts]

I'm now lv86 with my summoner and i'm loving it! Every summoned egi gets you an additional spell, which adds to the complexity of the job. Great change for the class and I hope they don't revert it in the next expansion.
I understand the complaints, but i'd rather complain if you're still unhappy at max level.

[Remnar]

I've been playing SMN for a long time. I've seen it's changes through the ex-packs and the ShadowBringer version, to me, was the best. Yes it was complicated (even more so before ShadowBringers); but once you learn each of the phases, then it was easy to understand. It took me a long time to master SMN, practicing at Stone-Sky-Sea, etc.. It has become ingrained into me, even still required most of my attention (which is why I didn't like playing it in raids). SMN was my favorite dps class. Even so, my criticism of it that it lacked real summons, that it needed ones like Shiva, etc for certain debuffs and effects, even if you had to choose a set of them because there's no way you're gunna want to memorize each of their phases lol. Now we have a very stripped down version. I thought I had to spend time relearning SMN again. I figured it out in less than 30 minutes and got a rotation working, even tried it out in Matoyas dungeon. It really does need a few adjustments. But in the end, I prefer the previous incarnation much better.

[TakumiHarada]

I don't mind much about it being streamlined, although I'd say until you get the lv86 skill, the job feels extremely slow because SMN, which used to be oGDC-heavy, has become extremely instant GCD-heavy. I think people want something to do between casts. For example, dancer is a more simplistic job, but frequently having fans to weave in between makes it feel engaging.

I have a few suggestions and hope the job can be improved in the short future:
- Remove gemshine/gembrilliance and merge them with ruin/tri-disaster. People won't (can't) use the latter during the 3-primal phase anyway because of how rigid the 1-minute rotation is. For gamepad players, having so many spammable GCD buttons is a nightmare.
- Fix carbuncle's positioning. Currently there is no point placing it because of how frequent primal summoning is. It comes back to you after merely several GCDs. What I have in mind is like SCH's Seraph.
- Reduce the cooldown of energy drain to 30s. Currently except the start of the 1-minute rotation there is almost nothing to weave in between. Having more oGCDs will make the job more engaging.

I understand that this job is completely revamped and could be rushef because of the delay, but I think the concept is good and it just needs more polishing. Thank you.

[Skiros]

The job really doesn't make much difference at Lv86. Nothing is different about Titan other than it probably having a higher potency/GCD which probably puts it above the other summons for bursting. Nothing is different about Ifrit other than having to gapclose. Nothing is different about Garuda other than having to do a long cast.

[Ralts]

The job really doesn't make much difference at Lv86. Nothing is different about Titan other than it probably having a higher potency/GCD which probably puts it above the other summons for bursting. Nothing is different about Ifrit other than having to gapclose. Nothing is different about Garuda other than having to do a long cast.

There'll never be a huge different, but still a difference there is.

This is like AST all over again.
Whatever. This forum's toxic.

[Skiros]

There'll never be a huge different, but still a difference there is.

This is like AST all over again.
Whatever. This forum's toxic.

Oh my god just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're toxic.

[Ralts]

Oh my god just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're toxic.

Re-read your complaint and tell me it's not for the sake of complaining? Garuda making you have to long-cast is a difference; ifrit having you jump to an enemy is a difference; titan having you double-spam is a difference. It's changes your way to play, strategizing what summon to use next to not lose dps. The game is not an idle button mash, you also have to consider dodging and positioning.

I already accepted the summoner for what it is and it's no use complaining over something that has been changed already. I love the aesthetic of summoner in every FF game, but this SMN's playstyle we had until 5.x was not for me, so I mained something else. Now I tried it again, it's different, but I didn't compare. I like it, so I continued playing. That, for me, is all there is to it.

[Millybonk]

Re-read your complaint and tell me it's not for the sake of complaining? Garuda making you have to long-cast is a difference; ifrit having you jump to an enemy is a difference; titan having you double-spam is a difference. It's changes your way to play, strategizing what summon to use next to not lose dps. The game is not an idle button mash, you also have to consider dodging and positioning.

I already accepted the summoner for what it is and it's no use complaining over something that has been changed already. I love the aesthetic of summoner in every FF game, but this SMN's playstyle we had until 5.x was not for me, so I mained something else. Now I tried it again, it's different, but I didn't compare. I like it, so I continued playing. That, for me, is all there is to it.

Re-read your comment and tell me it's not calling someone toxic for having a different opinion?

You doing that might explain why you evidently fail to understand the meaning of the word "feedback".
As I enjoy food analogies: do you also e.g. accept a burnt and bland meal at a restaurant because "it's no use complaining over something that has been changed"?

The new SMN is just utterly dull, lifeless with 0 skill-ceiling: why are there even filler spells left if the new class fantasy is to let the egis to all the work?