New summoner is unacceptable

[Momo_Kozuki]

In the End(walker), Summoner is just the same as the Shb version: a stance-user.


I want a summoner who has to manage both of himself and the summon, know when to call your pet to attack and when to call it back and put it on standby to protect it from harm's way. In exchange, the summon cares for the summoner's well-being. A mutual relationship.


Let's me give an example how a summoner's master and pet relationship done well: Blade and Soul. While I hate this game with a passion, it managed to make the class feel like a master-pet class. Your pet has HP, can be killed and you must manage it so it won't stand in the puddle and the AoE path. If your pet die, you lose half of your utilities that will greatly hinder your ability to survive the mechanic. If you keep it alive, there is an array of things you have it do for you: it is your CCer that can do the CC independently even if you can't yourself; it is your makeshift tanker when you need to avoid being targeted; it shields you when you is near-death so you can recover till the bitter end; your can send it to aid other near-death people; if someone is dead-cold, you can send it to rez while you continue to DPS and handle mechanic; it can run to you to rez you when you tank the floor; as a last-ditch effort, it sacrifice itself to rez the whole party.


FF14 now? You summon a HP-less carbuncle, that will change to different bigger summons, that are also Hp-less. Everything is just a big visual. I don't care about how simple it becomes. Sure, it may be designed to be close to the traditional FF summons that go out, throw a big animation, the go off, but the only thing I know is that summoner is still not a pet class I want.


Even other classes with "pet" are also stance users, like Scholar, Machinist and Dark Knight. Zero relationship between you and the pet



The only thing that is closer to a pet now is your Chocobo, which is dumb, weak and gimmicky. You raise it not for it to become stronger to help you, but for the chocobo glam. Or cuz you're bored and have no better things to do.



I hope that if FF14 ever does a Beastmaster, it will be a proper pet user class. Not another stance-user where every "beast attack" is just animation. I don't mind it is being a limited job if it has to be one to function differently.

[Rin_Kuroi]

Simpler isn't bad. But there's a balance to be struck. It really feels like it has a high skill floor and a low skill ceiling. The end result is just boring. I wouldn't dream to make arguments that the 5.0 was perfect. It was rewarding though. It had variety in mechanics that allowed a skilled player to rock.

Instead they copied and pasted the phoenix mechanics across the whole class with minor tweaks here and there. I wish they would have taken a scalpel to this job instead of using a saw.

[JuicyHeals]

Long-time lurker here, been browsing the forums and I must say it's kinda impressive how adverse people are to job complexity whether it be Monk or Summoner. He'll even bard.

EDIT

To further clarify simple isn't necessarily bad, but But I feel that having some thought going into maximizing your output is engaging and will keep you from going absolutely braindead.

[Roda]

To further clarify simple isn't necessarily bad, but But I feel that having some thought going into maximizing your output is engaging and will keep you from going absolutely braindead.

This is my problem rn. With no job mechanic to define the rotation's identity, my eyes are glazing over while the game plays me, instead of the other way around.

All these elements on my job gauge and still the only thing I'm looking at is a cooldown on my bars. :T
This isn't summoning, this is waiting and cleaning.

[Rin_Kuroi]

I want something straightforward. Not simple. By straightforward I mean it should be easy to see how all the pieces of the job fit together. And I'll admit. 5.0 summoner wasn't very straightforward (though not as bad as some people in this thread make it out to be). This new summoner is simple. Simple to the point its kinda boring. I can't even say it really has an opener.

[Issaella]

They took a circular saw to the job and replaced it with something that is far less enjoyable IMO. All the old bugs are still there. The idiotic AI behavior is if anything now even worse. Previously you would have to account for Bahamut's travel time and ability delay every time you moved. Now you have account for the fact that the stupid primal summons will have to run into melee range before pooping-out their AoE as soon as they hit min distance. Because their abilities are targeted on themselves instead of the mob they will miss every other member of the group unless you specifically target the one that is farthest away. You never had to do that with Ifrit or Garuda egi or on the big nukes on Bahamut or Phoenix because they were targeted on the mob. So they eviscerated the job just to make it even more annoying and micro-manage-y to play properly.

EDIT - I feel I have to say this, I don't like to complain, I don't like to hyperbole, I just go along, but this has literally killed any desire I have to play EW. 5.0 SMN was my favorite DPS job, I haven't even touched the first MSQ quest and just queuing for old raids or sitting around the FC house with no motivation to move forward. I don't even feel like logging in today, maybe that was the intent, to reduce queue times.

[Samhain1983]

I love the new summoner. First of all, I am indeed a Summoner. I summon things. all the time. and i have all these cool looking spells. Who cares about "how complex it is". Something can be simple and still be amazing!

I love these changes!!

[Bobby66]

I love the new summoner. First of all, I am indeed a Summoner. I summon things. all the time. and i have all these cool looking spells. Who cares about "how complex it is". Something can be simple and still be amazing!

I love these changes!!

I personally hate the changes but yes smn now does fit more in lines with what a smn is. Though personally I no longer have a class that fits what I like. I did like the dot management and personally wish dots played more of a part in their playstyle.

As it stands for those that like that style of play we currently have nothing outside Bard but that will be short lived since dots are going away for them too most likely. Dots can be fun and engaging they should not run it.

[Riusvell]

And I do not.
For a good reason that I don't feel like my summon is even doing anything and the epicness of fighting alongside a Summon is now long gone.
"B-but we actually summon things now!" Wow, I feel like such a massive impact from them! Oh wait, no. I don't even feel like they're there except for a button becoming glowy and changes it's colours a bit. Wow, that's so amazing! I totally feel like I've summoned something! Oh wait, I don't.


I can't wait for a lot of people here to realise that it's not as great once the new shiny coating wears off and we see what it actually is, a hollow shell of a job that's simply incomplete. The problems that were there are still there and they frankly did a worse job on the whole summoning thing than initially. There's no style to it, no flair. No actual calling forth a summon except for the Carbuncle.

[aveyond-dreams]

Choosing branching combos definitely feels a lot better than sticking with 1 egi stance per fight. Of course I'd love to see new trances/gem summons for Shiva/Leviathan/Ramuh etc but right now the gameplay loop feels great to start off with. If I have to choose between this and the "complexity" of old summoner I'm choosing this every time.