New summoner is unacceptable

[Escalon]

What the hell are you even arguing against lol?

Oh no no no, Im not arguing against lol, I just threw some extra information to some people!

[Rin_Kuroi]

You want Titan/Ifrit to move towards the target of the Summon attack in a way that, when they touch the enemy's max melee radius, they're in range of as many other mobs as possible.

Great diagram. That's why I'm having problems with titan's aoe missing so many mobs. I guess that's how it always worked. We just never used Titan in anything that mattered.

[Fyrebrand]

I don't hate the new Summoner, but I do find it eerily simple, almost unsettlingly so, like when I first unlocked Dancer. It feels like: "No, that can't be all there is. I must be missing some key component, misinterpreting a tooltip, or something. It can't be this easy..."

Granted, I'm only 67 on my SMN, so I have no idea what comes later. But right now, I think all I do is... just hit the buttons when they're available? Possibly with the exception of Ifrit-egi's Gemshine ability, because it has a cast time and that feels bad.

I do miss the DoTs though. The DoTs were fun, and satisfying to spread to a big group and let 'em tick away. Admittedly, the devs are probably saving me from my own bad habits as well because I would just instinctively take time to place DoTs even on any random single monster that wouldn't live to see them do much damage.

[Skiros]

Oh no no no, Im not arguing against lol, I just threw some extra information to some people!

Nowhere did anyone say that the problem with current SMN is that Demi-summon actions are on the same button as Ruin. The problem is that by removing way too many skills and not adding enough skills the Ruin spam is much more pronounced than ever to the point of being truly ridiculous. You don't even need to weave in like 70% of your opener. So this is not the clever comeback you think it is.

[MaelleRiou]

It just feels unfinished. I like the removal of DoTs and I like the proper summons, but it just feels barebones and incredibly simple.

I agree with people that it's a good foundation for building a job, the problem is that it shouldn't just be a foundation, it should be a finished job. Shiny summon animations don't really make up for the extremely simple gameplay of it.

I also think arguments about the damage are beside the point. It's not suddenly going to be a great fun job if it does top damage. The damage isn't the main problem, potencies are a lot easier to adjust than finishing an unfinished job.

[Shougun]

Played at the dummy longer, still like the shift to far more primal related items but that is a discussion of theme- very purty (which I've always been open on how that is done, many ways, just that it 'is' done). On gameplay though I certainly could see adding something to break the routine, could feel good. Though at least on the dummy I wasn't bored.

Doesn't even need more buttons necessarily even, given that the job is already a job of mutations (just mutate another unused ability lol), but like thinking of bard / dancer mechanics with procs (mage ballad / feather mechanic)- where you step out of the strict formula here and there to make better decisions. Something to add some extra variation (without hopefully going back to old issues of too many clashing systems). Maybe bringing the astral flow concepts in sooner, and that cherry on top variation. With the given foundation I think they can achieve that though.

Honestly one thing that caught my eye was we still have that cure lol, maybe they can replace it with a carbuncle theme support cure with cooldown or something (not important, just caught my eye XD).

[MagiusNecros]

Given how the Summon attacks interact below 90 SMN will perform best IMO as a melee caster ironically.

[Lunaxia]

...

I'm a little devastated, to be honest. I've been maining SMN since Stormblood, especially as healing began to grow very simplistic and one-dimensional with each expansion pack release. When DRK underwent a similar streamlining, and after having found the other DPS classes boring or just simply not satisfying to play, I always took refuge in SMN. Classes like DNC and RDM bore me to tears, though I didn't begrudge them because I know some people do enjoy and take comfort in more basic rotations; it just made me appreciate the challenge and rewards that SMN offered for playing well all the more. I liked juggling different aspects of the class and planning ahead to optimise movement with damage. I liked its complexity, I liked how satisfying the trances felt when I played properly, and learning how to align cooldowns and DoTs with each new fight. I liked the need for adaptation and experimentation. It wasn't perfect, but it filled a need for a job with more layers than mindless button mashing and kept me playing when everything else was picked apart and dumbed down.

It took me about ten minutes to learn the new 6.0 rotation, and I could have cried. The new gemshine mechanic is enjoyable for approximately two minutes until you realise it's just an affected Ruin button, and the game handholds you into each trance and takes away any sense of satisfaction from playing them. I had to opt out of a low level dungeon because now that even DoTs are taken away, it's literally a case of one button spam for a large chunk of the lower tier content and I couldn't bear it for twenty minutes. I am beyond tired of Ifrit, Garuda and Titan, and after their NM fights, their HM fights, the EX fights, the Eden fights, and over 6 years of these Egis, I never want to see them again. We now have Bahamut and Phoenix, is there a lore reason they've never been updated? No Ramuh or Shiva? Different elements? No other primals out of any of ones we've fought? Not only is it now painfully simplified, it feels as if thematically we've been thrown back in time as well.

As I said, I don't mind simpler jobs at all, but what I don't understand is why there cannot remain some classes for those who enjoy more of a challenge and more depth. I am all for opening up the game to accomodate casual players, but to strip each and every class down to suit the most basic of needs is incredibly frustrating and alienating to those who look to gameplay as more than just a vehicle for showing off glamours or an accompaniment to a Netflix marathon. For the first time since I started playing, I'm at a loss, because now nothing appeals to me to play at all and it feels mindless and tedious playing for any length of time. I don't know how Sage or Reaper plays, but at this point, after watching my third job be stripped down and sold for parts, I'm not filled with enthusiasm to go and find out.

There seems to be no small amount of people who enjoy these changes, and though I find it a little baffling, that's a good thing, I suppose. One player will hardly be missed, but given the the time and energy I've spent on this game in the past, I'm saddended at how much the FFXIV I knew and loved has changed in this and so many other respects. Ah, well. I hope those who are happy enjoy Endwalker in my stead.

[Naoki34]

New summoner is unacceptable...

It's funny how people complain about the smallest things.

For me, ShB's PLD was disappointing to play and is still boring to play in Endwalker, I just moved on to another job that was more fun to play.

Ask yourself the right questions. Often it's the screaming minority that you hear the most, the majority might be happy with the change, and won't say so.

Should the gameplay be changed for the sake of a whining minority? That would be opening the door to any player request, not always legitimate.

There are many other things more important than the fact that you don't like your job anymore.

Apparently, it has become a way of life for many to complain... I don't like this thing change, I demand it... This is a scandal...


Really ?

[Thari]

Some people will always be mad no Matter what you do.

I think it is beneficial to have a more simple rotation. This game has a caster shortage. There are way more physical Ranged DPS compared to caster dps.

If you want to play a caster in raids you had 3 options
- play selfish turret dps (BLM) -> hard for beginners
- play 2min opener SMN -> hard for beginners
Or
- play rezzmage -> easy for beginners but who wants to rezz all the time?

So maybe with the New SMN we have a caster in between and people will likely play it more compared to the old SMN. Because it is more accessible now and a good Alternative for RDM