New summoner is unacceptable

[aveyond-dreams]

There is also the chance that since the job has fundamentally changed that your performance was affected by the newness of it. Goodness knows mine was. It is inevitable that you won't be the master of something straight away. In any case the chaos has been fun for me so far in the...instances I've been in on my main.

[Skiros]

There is also the chance that since the job has fundamentally changed that your performance was affected by the newness of it. Goodness knows mine was. It is inevitable that you won't be the master of something straight away. In any case the chaos has been fun for me so far in the...instances I've been in on my main.

Don't project your experience onto others lol, you can master new SMN in like 5 minutes.

The only thing that might not come naturally is:

To only use Ifrit when you can stand still in melee range for ~5 seconds.
Summon Ifrit and Titan in the middle of a pack if you are in an AoE situation.
If not progressing, use Swiftcast for Ifrit (Ruby Rite or something).

For the second point, I drew a diagram:




You want Titan/Ifrit to move towards the target of the Summon attack in a way that, when they touch the enemy's max melee radius, they're in range of as many other mobs as possible.

You don't have to worry about Slipstream as much because the AoE's center is on the mob's center instead of the Egi.

[Escalon]

Snip

People who played Summoner before and gave at least 2 sh*ts about the class should realize that when we summon, we use the same (but without dots and puddles) spells as when we hit Enkindle before. So Unless you just rolled the class for the sake of it, you should know this by default.

[Skiros]

People who played Summoner before and gave at least 2 sh*ts about the class should realize that when we summon, we use the same (but without dots and puddles) spells as when we hit Enkindle before. So Unless you just rolled the class for the sake of it, you should know this by default.

What the hell are you even arguing against lol?

[Fyrebrand]

I don't hate the new Summoner, but I do find it eerily simple, almost unsettlingly so, like when I first unlocked Dancer. It feels like: "No, that can't be all there is. I must be missing some key component, misinterpreting a tooltip, or something. It can't be this easy..."

Granted, I'm only 67 on my SMN, so I have no idea what comes later. But right now, I think all I do is... just hit the buttons when they're available? Possibly with the exception of Ifrit-egi's Gemshine ability, because it has a cast time and that feels bad.

I do miss the DoTs though. The DoTs were fun, and satisfying to spread to a big group and let 'em tick away. Admittedly, the devs are probably saving me from my own bad habits as well because I would just instinctively take time to place DoTs even on any random single monster that wouldn't live to see them do much damage.

[Rin_Kuroi]

You want Titan/Ifrit to move towards the target of the Summon attack in a way that, when they touch the enemy's max melee radius, they're in range of as many other mobs as possible.

Great diagram. That's why I'm having problems with titan's aoe missing so many mobs. I guess that's how it always worked. We just never used Titan in anything that mattered.

[Escalon]

What the hell are you even arguing against lol?

Oh no no no, Im not arguing against lol, I just threw some extra information to some people!

[Skiros]

Oh no no no, Im not arguing against lol, I just threw some extra information to some people!

Nowhere did anyone say that the problem with current SMN is that Demi-summon actions are on the same button as Ruin. The problem is that by removing way too many skills and not adding enough skills the Ruin spam is much more pronounced than ever to the point of being truly ridiculous. You don't even need to weave in like 70% of your opener. So this is not the clever comeback you think it is.

[MaelleRiou]

It just feels unfinished. I like the removal of DoTs and I like the proper summons, but it just feels barebones and incredibly simple.

I agree with people that it's a good foundation for building a job, the problem is that it shouldn't just be a foundation, it should be a finished job. Shiny summon animations don't really make up for the extremely simple gameplay of it.

I also think arguments about the damage are beside the point. It's not suddenly going to be a great fun job if it does top damage. The damage isn't the main problem, potencies are a lot easier to adjust than finishing an unfinished job.

[Shougun]

Played at the dummy longer, still like the shift to far more primal related items but that is a discussion of theme- very purty (which I've always been open on how that is done, many ways, just that it 'is' done). On gameplay though I certainly could see adding something to break the routine, could feel good. Though at least on the dummy I wasn't bored.

Doesn't even need more buttons necessarily even, given that the job is already a job of mutations (just mutate another unused ability lol), but like thinking of bard / dancer mechanics with procs (mage ballad / feather mechanic)- where you step out of the strict formula here and there to make better decisions. Something to add some extra variation (without hopefully going back to old issues of too many clashing systems). Maybe bringing the astral flow concepts in sooner, and that cherry on top variation. With the given foundation I think they can achieve that though.

Honestly one thing that caught my eye was we still have that cure lol, maybe they can replace it with a carbuncle theme support cure with cooldown or something (not important, just caught my eye XD).