New summoner is unacceptable

[Allegor]

Me, a healer main: "tell me more about how empty, uninspired, and fillery this new rotation feels..."

[Laphicet]

Me, a healer main: "tell me more about how empty, uninspired, and fillery this new rotation feels..."

Imagine how I feel being both a healer main and a SMN main. Or going from one to the other, rather. :<

First SB AST gets shat on going into ShB, then SMN gets shat on going into EW. I seem to be cursed that every class I fall in love with near the end of an expac gets utterly trashed in the next one. At least the SMN rework wasn't a lore-destroying mess though.

[Dyvid]

Yea, the job sucks....

Time to find a new main.

[Sho86]

Endwalker SMN is how a FF Summoner should be and feel like.

The argument about complexity is rather moot for the job itself; as by design of FF series, it was focused on summoning something, it deals (usually) large damage, then leaves. Should there be a job that revolves around dots and be complex? Sure, why not; but Summoner is not that job. First thing that comes to mind would be Arithmetician from FFT.


That all said, the damage numbers do seem a bit janky and some balancing could be done, over all though the job feels as it should with the summons.

[Daralii]

Endwalker SMN is how a FF Summoner should be and feel like.

The argument about complexity is rather moot for the job itself; as by design of FF series, it was focused on summoning something, it deals (usually) large damage, then leaves. Should there be a job that revolves around dots and be complex? Sure, why not; but Summoner is not that job. First thing that comes to mind would be Arithmetician from FFT.


That all said, the damage numbers do seem a bit janky and some balancing could be done, over all though the job feels as it should with the summons.

Summons have been controllable entities since FFX, so over 20 years at this point.

[ChazNatlo]

Summons have been controllable entities since FFX, so over 20 years at this point.

Thanks, I needed to feel old on top of worries about my new Job.

[Laphicet]

Summons have been controllable entities since FFX, so over 20 years at this point.

And to add onto this, the only games where this was reverted to single powerful summons before EW were Bravely Default and Bravely Second. And that's only because those games were styled in the vein of FF3. Even then Summoner in those games had a good bit more going for it than just shitting out a big DPS spell or three then running OOM. With a stat distribution that complemented Black Magic very well as well as a ton of abilities to not only amplify summons but do other things like a last summon on death or raise max MP. They also got combined with Conjurer in Bravely Second so they now acted like a hybrid between Evoker and Summoner from FF3, able to apply both huge buffs and huge damage while also gaining most of the nicer abilities both classes had. Yokai also was a summoner type class but it could shit out status affects and other massively debilitating stuff alongside the -ja spell summons it had.

TL;DR. Big cutscene boom then OOM SMN hasn't been a thing since real early FF. Even recent spinoffs improved on it heavily, too.

[Sho86]

And to add onto this, the only games where this was reverted to single powerful summons before EW were Bravely Default and Bravely Second. And that's only because those games were styled in the vein of FF3. Even then Summoner in those games had a good bit more going for it than just shitting out a big DPS spell or three then running OOM. With a stat distribution that complemented Black Magic very well as well as a ton of abilities to not only amplify summons but do other things like a last summon on death or raise max MP. They also got combined with Conjurer in Bravely Second so they now acted like a hybrid between Evoker and Summoner from FF3, able to apply both huge buffs and huge damage while also gaining most of the nicer abilities both classes had. Yokai also was a summoner type class but it could shit out status affects and other massively debilitating stuff alongside the -ja spell summons it had.

TL;DR. Big cutscene boom then OOM SMN hasn't been a thing since real early FF. Even recent spinoffs improved on it heavily, too.

The most recent spinoff, TFS, still uses the large hit/leave scenario. FFXI allowed the player the choice to keep it out yes, but it did little else than drain MP, so people did as before; Summon, damage, dismiss, other skills.

There is no doubt they've mixed it up a bit with X forward, but its still largely a summon/hit/leave system for summoning in many of the games and aspects.

[aveyond-dreams]

Summons should absolutely be controllable in ideal situations but for the past 8 years they tried and failed repeatedly to do that in this game. At some point you have to pull the plug when something has reached that level of dysfunction. Please. Before 10 summons were 1 off attacks, I like the mix we have in FF14 now but I do hope we get more summons later on.

[Roda]

I care less about the loss of dots, and the sorry excuse for pets than I do the gaping void where a job mechanic should be.
Particle effects are only 50% of a job's identity. We need interaction that's more than just "push button, see number"
Even other simple, straightforward jobs have SOMETHING. (dnc, combos, procs, feathers, esprit, dance minigame. mch, two gauges to build and spend. RDM, mana, procs, combos)

Give me something to build and work on while I'm just pressing 1111, and it'll be fine, maybe even alright.

I think aetherflow and carbuncle behavior are the most likely slots to be filled for any kind of job influencing mechanic. (WHY IS RUIN IV??? WHY IS IT HERE??? IT'S SO TACKED ON IT'S SAD.)

Also where's my mana?

may make me sound like the jerk but summoner being super simple and very few buttons is attracting me to it.

don't always feel like playing a job where everything is cranked to 100 at all times and one missed button messes you up for like a minute or more

This was never ShB SMN unless the one missed button was a directional key to dodge a killshot.