Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

[Rulakir]

I've been mulling over my thoughts because my initial reaction to EW was not positive. I needed to sift through the negativity and disappointment to write something coherent. :P This turned out to be a lot longer than I thought, so I'll have to split it up into multiple replies. Assume full MSQ spoilers. 1/3

Inconsistencies:

I lost track of how many times I was given pause because the narrative in EW didn't match what had been presented in previous content. I hesitate to say "retcon" because I don't want to have to go through and make a bullet list of them for debate, but that was my first thought every time. I know it was the same writer, but it felt like either the story had been handed off to someone else for a different interpretation or they discarded the path they were charting in ShB which led to lore rewrites and dropped plot points.

Zodiark:

Learning that Zodiark in the 'Hydaelyn & Zodiark' saga was little more than Gundam suit was disappointing. A major 'character' who had been name dropped since ARR, who was either the greatest threat to life or the savior of it, had no presence at all. The only argument I've seen against this is that Elidibus was Zodiark, but I didn't find that satisfactory since we'd already dealt with him in ShB. I also took issue with his model. It may have looked cool, but such a monstrous looking being didn't fit thematically with what we know of the Ancients and why he was summoned.

Fandaniel:

Fandaniel is the worst antagonist of the series for me bar none, which made having to face him repeatedly all the more irritating. I like Zenos more than Fandaniel and I don't like Zenos. When the creator of the series' best antagonist, Emet-Selch, tells me he's her favorite character I'm expecting something marvelous. Instead, as someone else put it, we got "depressed Kefka" (and his tiresome attachment to Amon).

Hermes was not any more likeable either. It was obvious from the start he was an "aberration", as he put it, seemingly the only dissatisfied Ancient in their society (in large part because he was in the wrong profession). I couldn't relate or sympathize with him and, while that's not necessary for an antagonist, it is the surest way I lose interest in them. He came across as hypocritical and unhinged, which I found annoying instead of entertaining.

[Rulakir]

Assume full MSQ spoilers. 2/3

Hydaelyn:

Venat was an incredibly divisive character for me. They made her likeable in Elpis only to ruin it at the end. We essentially made her omniscient and for her to not do anything differently was unthinkable to me especially as none of her choices up to that point had resulted in saving the star. I firmly believe Elpis should have branched into an alternate timeline. Not talking to Emet and Hythlodaeus was nonsensical, especially as a handful of quests earlier she was teaching us how to view memories of the past. I found all of her excuses flawed and had to resign myself to the writer(s) wanting a closed time loop so badly that I would have to suffer through the illogic of it all.

I did not care for the 'montage' scene after the end of Elpis either. It confused too many people because what was depicted didn't match with events as detailed in ShB. The audacity of Venat, giving that sanctimonious speech while acting as judge, jury, and executioner to a civilization she doomed with her secrecy. Her character ended up not being much different than Hermes. I was not moved by her 'suffering' either, which was her choice knowing exactly how it would play out unlike everyone else who suffered from her choices in ignorance.

The problem with this is Venat/Hydaelyn is written unquestionably as a "good" character to the extent of being the loving motherly figure to all. There's no arguing that she was in the wrong because - and this is another of my gripes - all shades of grey were stripped from EW. Your WoL, the Scions, the other non-Ancient NPCs, all view her as benevolent and just. (I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised by this as the Scions have always been zealous regarding her.) The fact that she does have two moments of self-awareness also trick you into believing she's a better person than she is.

Her reasons for sundering also change from Elpis to the Mothercrystal. First it's because she believes the Ancients incapable of the change she deems necessary and then it's because they were too dense in aether to deal with dynamis, something she never told anyone they needed to figure out how to deal with in the first place. Here's an idea: how about you consult with your experts, apprehend and interrogate Hermes, and inform the public to allow them the opportunity to adapt instead of letting the Final Days descend with no one having any idea why or how to adjust. Venat wasn't smarter than anyone else, she simply had access to information they didn't and because of that we'll never know if there could've been an alternate path for them. Knowledge is power and she refused to share it.

[Rulakir]

Assume full MSQ spoilers. 3/3

Best zone in the game and you know which one I'm talking about without my saying it, don't you?

Going back to Elpis, it was both the best and one of the most heartbreaking parts of EW for me. Regardless of what Elidibus said, I felt the possibility of saving the Ancient world was on the table especially following an expansion that introduced alternate timelines in order to save the WoL's life and the First from being rejoined. Instead, after a lovely MSQ experience with my favorite characters, it's ripped away with a ludicrous mind wiping plot device. I was angry, devastated. It was one of the only two times in the game I not only sat and cried, but genuinely didn't feel like playing anymore. Needless to say, the second time was before the last dungeon. The Ancients could've had at least one timeline in which they weren't destroyed and I'd argue that morally that was the only correct choice (which is why it needed to be an alternate timeline since it obviously wouldn't work if the WoL ceased to exist). Elpis carried this expansion hard, which makes it all the more egregious that it ended in tragedy that could've been avoidable.

Scions:

Contrast this with the Scion's plot armor, likely why I have to keep watching my Ancient friends die because the writers/devs won't touch the protagonists. The reason they keep having to bring up losses of characters introduced in ARR is because no major character on the side of the protagonists has died since HW. Having our group discuss overcoming despair when comparatively they've lost the least of any of the peoples we help or fight against rang hollow. The only exceptions are G'raha and Estinien. It's not that I wanted Scions to die (though I'd easily trade over half of them for Emet and Hythlodaeus), but they always win and without having to incur much in the way of costs. Maybe this contributes to why I feel like the Ancients have a more compelling story and characters. As a comment on Reddit said, "I adore their story more than our story."

I felt bludgeoned by the theme and I have to wonder how much of that was pushed due to covid.

Unanswered questions:

Lastly, the sheer amount of unanswered questions, particularly from ShB. When/why did Azem leave the Convocation? Why did Azem not join Venat if she was their mentor? What was Azem's fate (aside from the obvious sundering)? How did the unsundered escape being sundered? What did Emet succeed in doing to Zenos? Why was Zenos dreaming about Amaurot? These are just off the top of my head.

TL;DR: EW is middle of the pack for me, I thought ShB and HW were better.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Snip

To both you and the person above you.

Yes 1000%. You both made such amazing points and all of the problems you both addressed are reasons i just…can’t take this expansion or really this game seriously anymore. The constant plot armor of the protags is ridiculous and the whole venat thing was just…bad writing plain and simple, especially with them forcing the benevolence thing. It’s so upsetting too because the thavnair and garlemald plots are so amazing but once you get to the moon the story just takes a major nose dive, letting up a little bit with the second thavnair arc but then back to nose diving. It’s so sad.

[TheRod]

I don't think so.

I think if anything their prayers just activated via dynamus to shield you. Primals are made with aether afterall, considering where everyone was I think their hope for the WOL's safety activating dynamus makes more sense than the WOL becoming a primal.

This is a very concise and excellent observation.

There are some snippets here and there across the patch pointing for this course of direction in the near future.

As per example:

In context, the quest asks you to retrieve a crystal lantern for a gleaner. It has become a ritual to pray with it, while in the hopes of safe travels:

"Gleaner's Wish" quest dialogue
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/G..._Wish#Dialogue

"Lanterns light the way through the darkness─a tool which can mean the difference between life and death. They are synonymous with safe passage, and as such, it has become custom in recent days to imbue the crystals inside with the prayers of a more seasoned traveler."

And the scientist follows:





A manner to already introduce and infer sporadically the basis of this concept - that will likely be developed most centrally further ahead in the future of the game - and how the WoL is apparently a powerhouse of it.

[RyuDragnier]

My thoughts on the story? Rather than go bit by bit, I'm going to hit it with my overall thoughts. This may be the best written the game has ever been. I've laughed, cried, smiled, and felt more emotion this entire expansion than I've ever felt in the game. I have not seen many things, if any, in the expansion that were nonsensical or not well foreshadowed ahead of time. So much more lore given to us here than we've ever had before. Ishikawa and the whole writing team outdid themselves this time, and I daresay it may be hard for the game to ever hit this high note again in storytelling.

[MikkoAkure]

I’ve read through the thread and wonder if some of us have been playing the same game this whole time.

There was no way after 11 years of the game that they were going to have a twist where Hydaelyn is malevolent. That would cheapen a lot of the game and a lot of what we’ve done for a weak payoff. It was apparent things were going to end this way when SE responded in an interview to say that we only had one side of the story.

The plot armor for the Scions is annoying but expected, since they’ve had plot armor since the beginning and Y’shtola herself has been in mortal peril at least 5 times off the top of my head (tsunami in 1.0, Flow in ARR, stabbed in SB, Flow 2 in ShB, and Meteion’d in EW). I didn’t expect any prior established characters to die who were in the Trust system or in existing branching quest lines.

The game has always been fairly saccharine with a message about love and friendship. Even the edgy DRK turns out to be a knight who uses the power of love. There are dark moments for sure, but none of expansions end on one, least of all the whole game’s storyline.

So overall I’m confused why the outcome comes to a surprise to some. Were people seriously expecting an end where the Ascians were right all along and half of the party is dead?

Most of my thoughts on the expansion have already been mentioned here by others. The writing seems to have been inconsistent compared to ShB, with wild changes to our understanding of existing lore with no explanation. Other times, it felt like the writers were casually going through a list of bullet points they have for unfinished plot threads and just throwing the solutions at us out of nowhere and then moving on quickly by the end.

Then specifically with the ending:

I felt like the Scions were in no danger at all because they beat us over the head with the foreshadowing for Azem’s Crystal and the teleporter as if to keep making triply sure we wouldn’t forget about those plot devices.

Overall I would rate it below ShB, which felt consistent and focused throughout and made me cry at the end. None of which EW did. I would rank it above or equal to HW, and definitely above ARR and SB, the saving grace being:

Impromptu “road trip” with my friends from 12,000 years ago being one of my highlights for the game as a whole, and the fact that I felt like while inconsistent and sometimes lost, the game at least didn’t bungle the end.

[Rannie]

How can I put my thoughts on it... How dare Ishikawa and Yoshi P do that to me... I've NEVER fully cried during an expansion. Teared up a bit maybe, but flat out cried... not once, not twice, but FOUR (or five) TIMES!? Ye, gods was that an emotional roller coaster ride. I'm just glad my father was asleep or at work during most of this or he'd be looking at me all weird for the crying. shhhhiiii.....

I think i'm going to go into a corner and cry again

Edit: Before I do that (cause adulting) just one question in the last Area by the time we start going to the final boss, did anyone else get the 80's movie music vibe like I did with the zone music? (Can't wait to buy the album btw).

[Bhearil]

I’ve read through the thread and wonder if some of us have been playing the same game this whole time.

There was no way after 11 years of the game that they were going to have a twist where Hydaelyn is malevolent. That would cheapen a lot of the game and a lot of what we’ve done for a weak payoff. It was apparent things were going to end this way when SE responded in an interview to say that we only had one side of the story.

The plot armor for the Scions is annoying but expected, since they’ve had plot armor since the beginning and Y’shtola herself has been in mortal peril at least 5 times off the top of my head (tsunami in 1.0, Flow in ARR, stabbed in SB, Flow 2 in ShB, and Meteion’d in EW). I didn’t expect any prior established characters to die who were in the Trust system or in existing branching quest lines.

The game has always been fairly saccharine with a message about love and friendship. Even the edgy DRK turns out to be a knight who uses the power of love. There are dark moments for sure, but none of expansions end on one, least of all the whole game’s storyline.

So overall I’m confused why the outcome comes to a surprise to some. Were people seriously expecting an end where the Ascians were right all along and half of the party is dead?

Most of my thoughts on the expansion have already been mentioned here by others. The writing seems to have been inconsistent compared to ShB, with wild changes to our understanding of existing lore with no explanation. Other times, it felt like the writers were casually going through a list of bullet points they have for unfinished plot threads and just throwing the solutions at us out of nowhere and then moving on quickly by the end.

Then specifically with the ending:

I felt like the Scions were in no danger at all because they beat us over the head with the foreshadowing for Azem’s Crystal and the teleporter as if to keep making triply sure we wouldn’t forget about those plot devices.

Overall I would rate it below ShB, which felt consistent and focused throughout and made me cry at the end. None of which EW did. I would rank it above or equal to HW, and definitely above ARR and SB, the saving grace being:

Impromptu “road trip” with my friends from 12,000 years ago being one of my highlights for the game as a whole, and the fact that I felt like while inconsistent and sometimes lost, the game at least didn’t bungle the end.

I completely agree, the story even if still great feels at times disjointed and a step down from ShB. While ShB keep the quality high during the entire expansion here you see lows and ups making certain points awesome and others a real slog.

Its still a worthy finale but could be done better considering how good was ShB

[Cleretic]

Edit: Before I do that (cause adulting) just one question in the last Area by the time we start going to the final boss, did anyone else get the 80's movie music vibe like I did with the zone music? (Can't wait to buy the album btw).

Yeah, final zone goes through three different themes based on when in the MSQ you're at.

The only disappointing thing is that once you're done, it's just always playing Footfalls. I like Footfalls, but I preferred the second theme for traveling around.