Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

[Loggos]

Assume full MSQ spoilers. 2/3

Hydaelyn:

Venat was an incredibly divisive character for me. They made her likeable in Elpis only to ruin it at the end. We essentially made her omniscient and for her to not do anything differently was unthinkable to me especially as none of her choices up to that point had resulted in saving the star. I firmly believe Elpis should have branched into an alternate timeline. Not talking to Emet and Hythlodaeus was nonsensical, especially as a handful of quests earlier she was teaching us how to view memories of the past. I found all of her excuses flawed and had to resign myself to the writer(s) wanting a closed time loop so badly that I would have to suffer through the illogic of it all.

I did not care for the 'montage' scene after the end of Elpis either. It confused too many people because what was depicted didn't match with events as detailed in ShB. The audacity of Venat, giving that sanctimonious speech while acting as judge, jury, and executioner to a civilization she doomed with her secrecy. Her character ended up not being much different than Hermes. I was not moved by her 'suffering' either, which was her choice knowing exactly how it would play out unlike everyone else who suffered from her choices in ignorance.

The problem with this is Venat/Hydaelyn is written unquestionably as a "good" character to the extent of being the loving motherly figure to all. There's no arguing that she was in the wrong because - and this is another of my gripes - all shades of grey were stripped from EW. Your WoL, the Scions, the other non-Ancient NPCs, all view her as benevolent and just. (I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised by this as the Scions have always been zealous regarding her.) The fact that she does have two moments of self-awareness also trick you into believing she's a better person than she is.

Her reasons for sundering also change from Elpis to the Mothercrystal. First it's because she believes the Ancients incapable of the change she deems necessary and then it's because they were too dense in aether to deal with dynamis, something she never told anyone they needed to figure out how to deal with in the first place. Here's an idea: how about you consult with your experts, apprehend and interrogate Hermes, and inform the public to allow them the opportunity to adapt instead of letting the Final Days descend with no one having any idea why or how to adjust. Venat wasn't smarter than anyone else, she simply had access to information they didn't and because of that we'll never know if there could've been an alternate path for them. Knowledge is power and she refused to share it.

I really agree with this analysis. Still, I do love

Venat. I know it's very easy and can be all too convenient to say "it was out of character" when a character you like does something you disagree with.

But in this case I'm really inclined to do so. The lack of logic behind her actions felt too inconsistent with her characterisation considering that people described her as outstandingly intelligent and very proactive. She is not perfect but Hydaelin's plan seemed like the opposite of these defining traits to me...

I was under the impression that all of her bad attempts at excuses and justifications were really just the writers desperately trying to excuse the plot through her mouth.


It seems to me that they really wanted to include the time travel element, maybe amongst others as a way to bring beloved characters like Emet-Selch (and the until then faceless Hythlodaeus) back and give us a glimpse at the Ascians' world that we can experience first hand, that is not just a tale or a flashback.

But at the same time they also knew that they didn't have the room or time in the remaining story anymore to incorporate the time travel in a way that really makes sense.
To account for all the effects that should logically have followed. It's easier to just say "btw everything else stays the same after you leave", so you don't have to spend time on explaining to the player all the things that have changed in the meantime compared to the original time line.

(I am aware that in the end the world has to be sundered either way because otherwise there is no Aldenard that we could return to and no WoL that could do the returning in the first place. But maybe they could have found a reason why the sundering still had to happen that was better than just "nothing will change" and "Only Venat can know because Hermes might pull a stunt if literally any other person than Venat learns about it".
How about telling just the other 13 members of the convocation and face Hermes together? Or at least tell Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus. Emet is a master-planner and Hythlo seems quite smart himself. Maybe the brainpower of three intelligent Ascians would have led to a better plan than only Venat's. Or maybe Hermes learning the truth and sabotaging Venat's and the others' efforts to change the future would be a good reason why the sundering ultimately still happens.
It would still be better than the excuses we were served.)

So in the end, I really agree with others here, I think the alternative branch as we had it in ShB would have made a lot more sense. I just cannot fathom why Venat would act as @Rulakir describes. Now that she knows what's happening she is more or less sentencing them to death because she is withholding knowledge, esp. from Emet and Hythlodaeus, that might have changed things. The story insisting that despite the time travel nothing can change and that the events have to play out like before make little sense to me.

But a loop is a lot easier to write and to justify if you bring up time travel in the second to last zone.

I loved Elpis - it was my favourite part of EW next to the final zone - and I would not want for it to be removed from the story under any circumstances. But I think they used it too late in the story for its revelations to be properly integrated into the rest of it.