Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

[yorjen]

just finished the 5th area and HOLY SHIT that was intense, so far absolutly fucking astounding

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

I agree with you. The main story was amazing and one of the best FF stories ever told, but yeah, what you describe is on point.

[ICountFrom0]

Without spoilers, but have you thought about how much work went into this?

The entire layout of the second area is built to make this possible. All the places with fights are not QUITE in sight of any place before the spoiler. From the western edge, everything looks, and always will look normal.

And it's amazing.

[Lyth]

End of MSQ Spoilers

I think that the most brilliant insight that the Endwalker scenario writers had was when they realized halfway through that a depressed Kefka and a bored Sephiroth just weren't going to cut it as main villains, and rescued the plot with the Convocation and Loporrits. Hyth, Emet, and Venat absolutely hard carried the MSQ. They also very cleverly fleshed out Azem's persona through your mentor while leaving plenty of room for personal interpretation (and grape/volcano references, if you wanted to play into it). It's wonderful how closely our current family of nerds trying to save the world mirrors our old one.

[Rosenstrauch]

Alright, I am steadily making my way through Zone Five. And so, my thoughts.

Goddamn time travel.

Now that that's out of the way—the characters in Elpis—including Elpis itself—are all very charming. There is a lot of innocence to be had here, and not simply in the form of Meteion. Consider the blasé approach the Ancients take to ending the lives of their creations.

On the same subject, it is a little weird to treat that as anything particularly odd. I mean, if you're a crafter, odds are you've killed thousands of mobs for their drops. And even if you're not, given all the dungeons and quests in this game you're bound to have killed many things simply for being in your way, or on your way to something you wanted to do.

But that said—the innocent way they unmake their creations is reminiscent of the way people are unmade by the effects of the Final Days.

Speaking of Meteion, she is cute as a button and I love her. I'm afraid I've been a bit spoiled regarding her. Just a bit. But I would like to see how this goes. Also neat to see that she's been imbued with the same powers that are later known as the Echo. They kept the 5.2 revelation that this was a natural thing for the Ancients, but it's interesting to see that they can grant an artificial version of it. I just hope she doesn't turn into Zenos. That would be awful.

Emet-Selch describes the process of transformation to be vainglorious. So says the Sorcerer of Eld (tremble before his glory). I can't help but wonder if either of his Hades forms in Shadowbringers are as much an extension of Zodiark's tempering as they are him simply showing off.

The means of altering and erasing memories—it's not surprising that the Ancients would have such a thing. Given that Hermes—rather, Fandaniel—was the one to make it, I can't help but wonder at Amon's cutting off Owen's research... which in part lead to our cure for Tempering. Or his acceptance of our means to shield others from Tempering, preventing their memories (among other things) from being altered by primal energies.

Hermes being such a bleeding heart is such a fantastic shift from his earlier (later?) appearance as Amon and Fandaniel. It makes me wonder if Fancy Dan was lying, even to himself, about the disconnect he felt from the memories of his Ancient self. That rather than having rejected it, he became a person split across two perspectives—the sadistic and cruel Amon and the empathetic and intro/extrospective Hermes—and this coupled with latching onto the views of the Emperor Xande clone is what led to him becoming so intensely nihilistic.

And then I hit a level barrier.

EDIT: Holy hell, talk about an intro. Venat, you are amazing. And it is fascinating to see the trio of friends expand to a quartet, and one that feels as natural as this.

I suppose this confirms that the Blessing of Light is not tempering at all. Which, well, is nice to see confirmed instead of not being discussed at all. It is simply a mark of protection—I imagine it is just a means by which Hydaelyn takes bullets meant for us, so to speak. Which is to say I still don't agree with the aggressive "It's always been the Blessing of Light that protects you" approach from earlier in the story, with no mention of the Echo's protection. But I can see why they stressed that it protects us, at least.

They continue to straddle the line in regards to time travel rules—suggesting that we might change this fellowship's future, but not our own. But as mentioned earlier, the entire reason Elidibus sent us here is because he remembered us being there. Time will tell if this is a closed loop, a split timeline, or some weird thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around...

… oh my God. I was not prepared to have all my criticisms of Hydaelyn's behavior be taken up by Venat herself. I just, I am, I can't... I think I've found my favorite character in this expansion. Thank you, Ishikawa, for actually making me love this woman. Maybe not as much as Ryne or Minfilia, but I'll be damned if my expectations weren't subverted in this best way I could hope for.

EDIT 02: Finished the dungeon. Saw all I needed to see. 10/10 delivery. I am now entirely sold on this character. But holy hell, time travel headaches.

Final Edit: I have finished with the fifth zone, and enjoyed every moment of it—and while I expected to do so, everything about that zone surpassed my expectations.
I will probably get down to finishing tomorrow or the next day.

[Hustensaft]

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

I felt the exact same way...

[Kisshu]

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

I can only agree 100% with this

When Endsinger said someone was trying to break in, I was saying to myself I hoped it wasn't Zenos, and behold, there he was.

A big part of the finale imo hinges on how big a Zenos fan you are, and for someone who wanted him to be left behind in SB it was near awful. The whole final part was a clear attempt to set it up as FFXIV's version of Cloud and Sephiroth's final battle in FFVII.

Zenos could be removed from EW and the story would not have suffered, might even be better.

I kinda wanna glamour the chicken suit and watch the final fist fight again, just for the lols.

[Alleo]

LvL 88 and ready to write some ramblings on my experiences with this expansion. Right now though Shadowbringers is still in the top but the later parts of this expansion have at least made it another very good experience too.

I do have to say though that imo SE should have taken down the number of "escord quests"...there were situations where it was fitting but other times I wish we could have decided if we explore the place ourself or not. But I get the feeling that SE really likes to milk their new systems to death.

I am also not doing most of the side quests right now because I want to do the MSQ as smooth as possible, so no spoilers about those in any of my comments.

Old Sharlayan (including its other zone)

I really liked the arrival at this city. From finally talking to Hydealyn again to seeing the city the first time. It was great. Since I was interested about Hydaelyn the most I also started the split there. Labyrinthos was fine, it did feel a bit boring at times. Still some good humor and some good informations at the end. Also got the feeling that Hydealyn was good and really wanted to help us.

I snickered a bit when the forum scene came and they took away my characters second pair of horns. Just the idea that she casually puts them away for that. Krile and her ponytail was cute though.

Still the whole part left me feeling slightly frustrated because not a single one of the scions even thought about the zone being some kind of bunker...even if that may or may not be its true purpose. Also not sure how to feel about the blessing of light suddenly being the thing that stops tempering...so we could have bascially became tempered when Middy took it away? Well thank god then that we somehow did not have a fight.

Otherwise the city itself was beautiful and I could see myself living there.

Also the mother of the twins is a delight. But nobody in this game really wants to hug or show too much emotion at such reunions or goodbyes which is a bit sad...

Thavnair

Another beautiful map. I enjoyed the characters and the locations. I loved the part with Vrthra and Estinien and that we finally have a child of Middy that just really really loves these humans and that would even ignore his brothers cry for help. I hope he survives it all.

I groaned a bit when our elephant lady (sorry really bad with names) just walked so far away from us...did everyone just forget that these towers spawn horrible monsters? And did our character just forget that Fanny boy was near just a short while ago? I did not came as a big suprise that she then was caught...the scene where she was put in was still horrible.

The lore drop about Fandaniel was fascinating..but also like "of course its somehow connected to Allagans again".

First dungeon and aftermath

I liked the visuals and the fights really were spicy. Of course I still got to get a feeling for the summoner too. Still strange how easily we not only found a solution for the tempering problem but also for the destruction of the tower itself. The writers also love to use either Ysthola or Graha for spells that needs to save people. It does come in handy that he learned that one just a bit ago and was good enough to save all of us. I think it was a bit too much but of course I am also happy that the NPCs were saved.

Vrthras words at that time felt like a bit of a death flag. Like SE was forshadowing that we will again lose some people dear to us. Having the twins in the scene after the talk really did not help.

The new concept was nicely introduced and I already felt that it would be one the most important parts of the expansion.

The "eating" scene was fantastic and I really felt that the words from the dragon still haunted our character.

Garlemald including its dungeon

For me this was the worst zone of the whole expansion. I really love Ishgard but I still dont like most of its zones because of the snow...so having Garlemald be mostly that just made it not appealing. I also dont like their architecture at all.

This all combined with the fact that the Garleans we met first back stab us all really got on my nerves. I did not really feel sad for the two sisters and I deeply wished that Qintus would not be someone we would have to rely on...after all we came to him with two "children" and did everything Jullus said. And as a thank you he puts these collars on them both and later uses the oil to power war machines instead of the train.

Then they go and cry about their past that is hundreds of years gone. Yes it was horrible that you were driven out of your own homeland but you have built yourself a new nation. A nation that seeminlgy even had a summer phase. And then he goes on about how we did not accept being one under Garlemald...the same country that should know how it feels to get their country taken away.

Thankfully Jullus was a good character. We learned about his suffering and even though he was harsh, he still had a good heart.

I was grateful that we did not have to deal with Quintus for too long. I dont think peace would have truly been an option with someone like him around.

Of course when all was good, the tragedy has to strike. And somehow we get captured....The things that follow are good and bad. I do like that we felt helpless but everything else was not that great. Yes Zenos said that he enjoyed the feelings he got when he was in the other bodies but unlike us he had a mostly save ride back to his own. I dont get it why they thought it was good to drop us into the destroyed city...we barely made it out alive. What would Zenos have done if we died there? Also what did it really do for the story? The scions saw throught it right away and somehow eventhough we were crawling on the floor, the WoL managed to reach them right in time to stop him from doing any damage. They could have at least made another RP fight were he hurts them a bit before leaving. After it was over it felt like padding...like giving Zenos something to do...as if our character would need even more motives to go after him...

Zone after Garlemald / First trial

Well we already go to the moon but thankfully Hydealny has bought us some time. The place is kinda empty but still beautiful and I really like the ancient here.

I am not sure what I should think about the shades. I guess it answers the question that they still exist. But quite a few seems to not really accept their fate? Or was it just the fact that "they" could no longer act as the will of the planet? Anyway my heart felt heavy when Hythlo appears...I wonder if Azem was also so against Zodiark because they knew he would be one of those that would sacrifice themselves? But at least he seems to be on our side which is good.

Also golden good boi is best boi! And he should get all the pets in the world. I am sure now that Hydealyn cant be evil if that is her servant.

Of course Fan Fan and Zenos had to destroy the good mood by being there but at least Fandaniel also destroyed Zenos plan and took over Zodiark himself.

At least in the following cutscene its clear that the shades dont want the planet to be destroyed. I am though not sure what he does with their souls? Are they released at the end or did he completely absorb them?

As the first trial we fight Zodiark and after that Fanny boi reveals his evil masterplan. I do like it that we would have lost any way. If we had not fought him he would have destroyed the world with his own hand (and after that himself anyways).

First I did not like what they have done with Zodiark. But after a bit of thinking it makes sense. In all those years he always has been the tool. Even the Ascians wanted him to be complete so that they can get their people back and live a great awesome life again. So its fitting that in the end he just remained another ones tool. A tool that was created to forestall the Final Days, the real threat.

A few pages back I read (before doing that zone) that Hydaelyn was shown in a too good light even though she was fine with sacrifing the shards. After reading that I feared that this would be the point were we will find out that she is another "bad" guy to be disposed off. After doing it myself I am honestly not sure were that view comes from. It was quite clear that she was not all knowing thus she simply prepared another route if we should fail. I really doubt that she would be fine with the destruction of the other liveforms but in the end if it came to the worst, she would at least be able to save a few. Her goal was still though to not lose any at all.

Then came the rabbits...the tiny cute adorable awesome rabbits. Which I wanted to hug and pet all day. And the shocking information that the moon was a freaking space ship. After that it was 100% clear what Sharlayan was up too.

I really enjoyed my time with the rabbits.

Next dungeon + new Zone (holy mother of Hydaelyn awesome)

So of course poor Thavnair was the first to get hit (cant do much with the old zones after all) and it was gut wrenching. Finally the game hit the notes it did in Shadowbringers with the sin eaters. But this time even their souls would be gone. It was absolutely shocking and kept me on my toes, especially with best boi Elephant and the baby.

Vrthra continues being the most awesome dragon in the world and finally even overcomes his own worries.

The final days really feel like a huge threat and with every NPC death I just imagined that their souls would now be gone...for me this is probably the most horrible fate one can have. (Okay Fandaniel would have loved it...)

Afterwards we have a bit of a break and the WoL is tasked with going to the first and visiting Elidibus. Thankfully all is still good there. The talk with Elidibus was emotional but I could not stop my laughter with his little resentment at the end towards Hydealyn. I wonder if he will think different when he knows the whole truth behind it.

I was a bit afraid of the time traveling part and at the end I was left a bit disappointed but for other reasons. The zone was beautiful and our partners awesome. Hythlo is such a kind and beautiful person with a good sense of humor and you could really see Emets personality shining through. I wish we could have more adventures with them. Also it does kinda confirm that the tempering (and probably thousands of years of their mission) really did change Emet. After all they did know about death. They even choose it themseves if they wanted to. I guess the difference was that with the Final days people could indeed not choose it.

Venat was another delight. And a lot of the stuff around Hydaelyn makes even more sense.

Up until the end I hoped that we would be able to save their timeline after all the talk about not being able to change our future but maybe theirs...turns out that of course thats not possible because of that stupid memory device. So everything happens as it was meant to be also because Venat decides to keep most of it to herself. I really dont get the logic behind it.

At least the zone did show that even at that time the Ancients had a bit of a problem of seeing anything not them as something alive. When Hermes said goodbye to that one creation I was in tears. I wished our character could have said a bit at that. But any kind of sympathy for Hermes went out of the window at the end. He was ready to let millions of liveforms die...including all of his creations that he suffered for...

Honestly that zone was probably the most depressing one right now. To give us a glimpse of it, to talk about how it would not change our future but maybe theirs just to end it like that...all my hopes that we might have used their future to maybe journey to their cities in some side quests in future expansion...all gone T_T

Edit: Great kicked from my 1.000 queue and three 2002 when trying to log in again...of course now I am back to 7.400...I just want to continue the story....T_T

[Nick_Andrews]

My first complaint about Endwalker's MSQ

Yes, introduce us a new character only to be killed off together with another character that we have never met offscreen in the next quest. Seriously, what's the point in introducing these characters to us if you're just gonna kill them off? What, was it to challenge Alphinaud's ideals and make him question whether what we're doing is the right thing to do? Haven't we gotten that point already with the Crystal Braves??? It's pointless and waste of time. That's not good writing.

[symbiote129]

My first complaint about Endwalker's MSQ

Yes, introduce us a new character only to be killed off together with another character that we have never met offscreen in the next quest. Seriously, what's the point in introducing these characters to us if you're just gonna kill them off? What, was it to challenge Alphinaud's ideals and make him question whether what we're doing is the right thing to do? Haven't we gotten that point already with the Crystal Braves??? It's pointless and waste of time. That's not good writing.

Which zone you talking about? Garlemald? If yes, I think if wasn't meant for the character development of Alphinaud. The focus was simply the tragedy of the nation that is Garlemald. All these people you meet is there to show how f'ed up they were raised. Remind yourself that Garlemald was our Nr.1 enemy country that had beliefs and ideals that almost mirror Nazi Germany. They were raised to see other nations/races with hostility and as their inferiors. Garlemald Empire started almost four generations ago, starting from Solus to his great-grandson Zenos but even before that they already existed as a Republic for centuries. Garleans did not really have a great history with other magical races, so starting with Solus' generation, their hate even intensified.