Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

[QT_Melon]

Hmm let me talk about Spoiler point when reaching a certain zone

The loremongers will have a field day with the moon and Elpis especially.

I found that wealth of information fun but it does leave some parts of my head scratching

The scene with Venat is different from what we saw in the dungeon (
FFXIV Shadowbringers Guide: Anamnesis Anyder - Gamer ...
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Feb 22, 2020 — Anamnesis Anyder is a Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers Main Scenario Quest dungeon. It's available at level 80 as part of the quest Beneath ...
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[SPOILERS] FFXIV Shadowbringers: Anamnesis Anyder + ...
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Feb 24, 2020 — Anamnesis Anyder is a required story dungeon added in patch 5.2 of Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers, and while it's not the trickiest, ...

Anamnesis Anyder) regarding the Final Days in some portrayals. Was this due to an alternate reality or what?

[Rosenstrauch]

Feeling a bit better now, so I think I'll continue my thoughts in this post instead.

The stuff that got me down last time:

It was not so much the part where Zodiark was treated as The Enemy by Hydaelyn's Watcher or having to fight him that "hurt me", as I put it. Rather, it was the three punch combo of the following:
- The near tender moments with the shades—the souls who gave their lives to aid Zodiark—softening me up for expected pathos. Like, reflecting on the tragedy of their current situation, or praying for their safe return to the aetherial sea once Zodiark is dealt with.
- The utterly ignoble treatment they and Zodiark received once Fancy Dan and Zenos arrived. Which works for me when it's coming from them, as they're meant to be hated. Not so much when it's coming from our allies, our character, and...
- The immediately ensuing three hour questline in which you get given the runaround by the Lopporits. Begone pathos, enter bathos.

As for my rant about Hydaelyn, my frustrations with her character would all go away if it was revealed I am actually right about her. That her poor decision making, stubbornness, and black & white morality were character flaws rather than the result of the writers being clumsy in their depiction of her deeds vs her words. The only characters who are ever allowed to be critical of her are the Ascians or their pawns, and the former are categorically cast as villains while the latter are gullible fools.

Even our one callout on her, right at the start, is just... like: "Yeah, I lied. Anyways, blah blah vagueness blah blah chosen one blah blah...".

Anyways, that's enough out of me on this subject. Time to see where this story goes.

Post-Zone Four stuff here. Spoilers for the second half of the story, natch.

The return trip to Thavnair was horrifying. Well done!

Seriously, even if the Final Days stuff is limited to this one dungeon—similar to Garlemald's occupation forces being stuck in MSQ during Stormblood and the same for Sin Eaters in Shadowbringers—I am actually sold on this being the nightmarish end of days that nearly snuffed out the old world. And despite Alphinaud suggesting this might be different because the account of how the monsters appeared is different, somehow I doubt that's the case.

I've seen it said that this change in spawning method makes them too similar to Sin Eaters, but to be honest, I think that might be the point. This change might be the connective tissue for all three, maybe even all four, "and then they became monsters" transformations we've seen now. To wit: Voidsent, Sin Eaters, Tempered Thralls, and now the Terminus/"Blasphemies". That when you poison a person's existence with so much of something, they transform nigh irrevocably into terrible beasts.

Not even a soul is left behind when these things are born, to say nothing of dying. Yes, this is what I was getting at before. This is the true reason for Zodiark's sealing: To protect him from death, lest all souls (including those sacrificed to him) be consigned to oblivion. Well-intentioned as it is, There's no such thing as hurting someone for their own good. There's only hurting someone for your own good. I wanted to look up that thought process to see if there was a word to describe it, and found that quote. God, yes, it's exactly what I think of Hydaelyn's actions.

Vrtra declares Zodiark the master of these things. I can't believe I want to slap this nice dragon in the face. He then shirks his duty to his people out of fear that it'll only make things worse. A sensible choice, but I actually want to slap him even harder now.

There is a brief encounter where you are tasked with finding a man, his wife, and their newborn child. You find the man at death's door, shadowed by two of the fiends. This is going exactly the way I expect, isn't it... nah, they pulled their punches just an inch. I am actually a little relieved. There have been so many dying children in this whole segment that an infant merely being orphaned and potentially scarred for life is a small blessing. Poor child. And thank God for Estinien and Vrtra.

When I first saw the trailer wherein the Lady in Light speaks of a flower, my first thought was that it would invariably blacken by the end of our journey. I'm not surprised that it has, but the reason is quite interesting.

Y'shtola declares that Hydaelyn is the one who forestalled the Final Days. The injustice of it all, that the being whose very existence served as the world's protection is condemned as the villain responsible for its destruction, while his jailer is lauded as the hero who saved it from him...

Back to the First. We missed the festival. Goddamn it. At least the writers remembered that Ryne exists, though. And thank God they didn't make me lie to her. Nice to see what I believed confirmed: Elidibus was not killed. Poor Elidibus. And oh boy, TIME TRAVEL. This will be entertaining, at least, but goddamn will it be headache inducing. The funny thing is, even if I were to alter past events, by Shadowbringers logic all this would accomplish is forking the timeline again. Our present would still exist as it is, unmarred by the altered past.

... of course they justify this trip to the past with Alexander logic. We get sent to the past because Elidibus remembers us being there. But we were only there because he sent us there. Goddamn causal loops...

I believe I'll leave this post there. Up next will be zone five, so I might as well make a new post for it that it might be on the latest page.

[Mieck]

Main Scenario Ten Characters!


Day One - Level 80-83

Opening to the Tower of Babil.
The Limsa boat call back was marvellous, shot for shot! I was glad they let the player be critical of Hydaelyn. Even though I was always on her team, I at least understood why others would question her motives. Baldesion Annex was great, and I spent a lot of time taking in all the little details in the Main Hall. Good riff on the FF5 main theme, too!

I actually took a swerve and went to Thavnair first. Hadn't planned to - it was just in the spur of the moment - and a party with Dadcred, Mr HoaryAnger, and Estinien was about the speed I needed. And I'm glad I did, because for all the weight of the looming catastrophe and the long shadow of the towers, I laughed a lot in this section, especially when Urianger presses F to pay respects to Estinien. Nidhana's theory of akasa was interesting, and did fit as missing piece. We had aether covering souls, memories, and physical matter, but making an exception for emotion didn't feel out of place.

I initially explained away Fandaniel recalling Owen's name for all the obvious reasons - we knew Emet had been involved with Allag to a degree, and news of Owen's dicsovery probably circulated amongst the Ascians - but the Amon reveal was really well done. An actual jaw-drop moment, that did immediately make sense and set other thoughts running. It immediately explained Fandaniel's outragous dramatics, and I think it was also a little nod to the fact that, although souls are recycled to a degree, the person is always unique. So, although Fandaniel and Amon were very clever people, the lived experience resulted in two quite different people.

Within 2 lines I had clocked Vrtra was being voiced by the same guy who did Goesetsu, and I really loved the whole interaction with the group, with Estinien, and in particular, that we finally - FINALLY - got confirmation that the Dragon Star was a place separate from Hydaelyn and that the rest of space was relative to the Source only. The Shards may well have versions of the Dragon Star out there in their night skies, but the Midgardsormr we know could never have arrived at them. (Some of this took place after the Tower of Zot, I believe, but I thought I'd lump them together.)

Back in Sharlayan, it was good to start seeing more of the city. I had packed my adoption papers and was ready to serve them on that swine Fourchenault, but the trip to the library was a nice diversion. There was a different feeling to this chapter, but still more hopeful than what was to come, and a few more moments of laughter and character growth. I was really glad Y'shtola got to deliver her line from the trailer to the Forum. I was happy to find Ameliance rather more agreeable than her husband, but I still had those adoption papers ready to go at a moment's notice.

Tower of Zot really set the stakes well - I had resisted watching any of the media tour stuff outside the job analyses, and was glad to go into it more or less blind. The final few moments of levity and calm were nice, too - the meal back in the Baldesion Annex, and then the lesson with Montichaigne (hello Conrad Kemp!) was a great tie back to the 2.0 amnesia. That did put my brain into gear on just how many old threads they seemed to want to tie off.

My heart was so full when we went to Ala Mhigo and saw all those quest NPCs back. I'm so happy I'd got everything levelled - it felt like I could really appreciate that scene to its fullest extent. But from more or less the first moment on Magna Glacies, there was no more laughter. I don't think they've set a mood for a main zone (not counting final zones - sorry, Tempest, you were great, but very short lived!) for a long time. Every piece seemed to work - the factionalism, the culture of mis-information and prideful superiority, a whole lot of chickens coming home to roost. Ishikawa really brought her A-game to Garlemald.

Quintus - I was struck that, in any other part of the MSQ prior to 6.0, this guy would have been a serious obstacle and maybe been a semi-antagonistic force for a good chunk of story. That they managed to fit so much into his character and scenes was incredible.

And then, well...
The quest "In from the Cold" broke me. I'm sure there are different parts of the story that will really get under people's skin, but for me, this was horrific. I have a very clear idea of Mieck - I'm not a role player in the strict sense of the world, but Mieck is me, and I am she. Her choices are my choices. And to have that autonomy stripped away, to be faced with the thought that I might be responsible for hurting the Scions was more than I could bear. Even throughout the journey in the First in 5.0, we (she/me) never panicked to this degree. This was such a terrible violation for us. Even Fray gave us the chance to defend ourselves when they wanted to take the reigns, but there was no choice here. By the time we were back at Camp Broken Glass, I could barely look at the Scions. How could they trust me again? What if I had been too slow?
I really wish the game could show a bit more, but I accept they have all sizes of characters to cater for, but at that moment, Mieck really needed a hug. I tried to go on after that - Y'shtola said time was of the essence! - but I just couldn't. So I logged off in front of the Tower of Babil entrance, and tried to get some sleep.
Huge rollercoaster of emotions on Day One.

Day Two - Level 83-87

Didn't sleep well at all! If SE had that much punch in the first 3 levels, I wasn't sure I was ready for any more!
But duty called, and the Tower of Babil was a great dungeon. Particularly liked arriving on the train with all those members of the Islabard Contingent, and then seeing the final lift in the Throne Room itself. I was a little concerned Anima might not feel like a good fight relegated to a dungeon, but it still hit pretty well, I think. I appreciated that we effectively dealt with Zodiark in the first third, since the strong direction from 5.0 onwards was the Sound - the cause of the Final Days - was a much greater threat, and no sooner is he dead, then the Sound makes their presence known! And, of course, it played into Danny Boy's scheme. Refusing to side eye Zenos as he strides by is exactly what I wanted. The advancement of akasa's place in reality from the Watcher was nice and detailed, and like the earlier stuff, did not heavily impact on aetherology as we understand it, which is a very obvious thing to say, since the two are separate, but this was handled well, in my view.

Loporrits! Hey, better than Moogles at least, and the interactions with Urianger were excellent. I loved the interplay between his secretive nature and willingness to find the good in everything and the Loporrit's concerns that, for all their preparation, there was no way they could ever have been ready.

Then, well, the Final Days really start in earnest - straight into Vanaspati, which was such a dramatic dungeon - and this whole section is such a series of gut-wrenches and terrible events that it would be easy to feel fatigued by it all, but again, I think Ishikawa handled this so well. It is unrelenting, but interlaced with the right hopeful and heroic moments. I remarked to my FC that I spent most of the time saying words that rhymed with "clucking bell" throughout this chapter. Finding out about the fate of the merchant I had met at the start in Thavnair was pretty hard, and then finding out about the Terminus Beasts completely destorying the aether of their victim... I felt G'raha's and Y'shtola's pain and confusion. I'd always loved G'raha's little line in the end of 5.0 - "as aether obeys the cycle" - and I wonder whether that was a little question posed by the team for us to spot?

Which leads me to the First. I was so delighted we got to go back. I was pretty sure it wouldn't feature, and I had resigned myself to it not featuring in MSQ again - or not for a while. But here I was, seeing Lyna, and Ryne! Maybe this is wishful thinking, but did Moren and Beq-Lugg basically meta-confirm EE3?!

I'd cried during a fair chunk of the story up to this point, but Elidibus in the Occular was a full-on ugly cry! To have stood against him for so long, even though I can understand his justification and that of the Convocation, and defeated him, to be able to say sorry regardless was a bit more than my emotional state could take.

Elpis. My first thought was "how will the inevitable dungeon in this zone work? The Scions can't be here, unless I'm about to Azem-summon copies of them, like back in Memoria Misera," but, as ever, the writers seemed to know, and hearing that familiar voice filled in the blank. I was very concerned from the moment Emet makes us able to interact with the zone. Integrity of the time line, and all that! But man, what a zone. It is everything I had wished places like the Sea of Clouds had been (obviously, they serve different purposes in the story, but the design was spot on). The moment I met Meteion I was worried, and this only increased as we learnt more about akasa/dynamis. I took every opportunity to speak with Hythlodaeus and Emet (and Hermes and Meteion, too), but I'm sure there are bits I missed, like the one higher up the thread where Emet gives us most of the roles of the Convocation. Unfortunately, before I could meet the person I was most anxious to see - Venat - my router decided it would be a jolly good idea to reset, and dump be back into a 6700+ queue... which promptly crashed on me once I was down to 12th in the list, 2 hours later... End of Day Two!

Day Three - Level 87-90

Day Three, or Why You Should Never Launch a First Contact Space Program without Planet-wide Approval!
Venat! Venat was Azem before our Azem! Emet thinks I'm a lying toerag! Hermes really just wants to find some purpose in life - some reassurance that he's not alone! So much good stuff in here. One of the questions I'd had in my head before launch was why was Venat certain that only she might suffice as Hydaelyn's heart? I was loosly going with the idea she was related to Elidibus, but that was answered in... a way. I think it was generally handled okay (the Kairos McGuffin, explaining how Hermes could possibly have ended up as Fandaniel after his stunt and the fight in Ktitis Hyperborea, why Zodiark was summoned despite knowing full well Meteion is the problem), but it begs the question how that information got into the loop first time around, and how Venat was so implaccably comitted to Hydaelyn's summoning. I'm still pondering how I feel about this, and whether it matters in the grand scheme of things.

The scenes in Amaurot, and of the Sundering, were powerful. More tears.
But the rollercoaster didn't stop! Final Days wait for no-one. I appreciated all the trailer references immensly, and it is so good to see how the plot gets expressed through game mechanics - Alphinaud healing and calming those at risk of transformation. Another piece of possible theorising I had was that Alphinaud was going to leave the Scions and take up his father's seat on the Forum (I was still picturing the demise of Fourchenault at this stage), but it was nice that Estinien makes a quip about just that! Mine (and Mieck's) position on Zenos was bordering on total indifference. Not in the meta sense of finding him a bad character, but because he was not something we wished to waste our time on. He was more to be pitied at that point, though pity is naturally in incredibly short supply for mass-murderers.

The return to Labyrinthos was a strange feeling. In the Hinterlands, the Peaks, and Khlousia, there has been a clear objective and purpose, but I guess it was the game's way of demonstrating that we're not needed for the busy work any more. To see all of those myriad side quests come home on the docks at Sharlayan was such a good moment, and was a nice two-finger salute to the Forum's way of doing business. Urianger's long-postponed meeting with Moenbryda's parents was so moving.

The Aitiascope did a lot of lose thread tidying. I was slightly worried when Asahi emerged - is this the shark-jumping moment - but as it was basically to just say a final eff you to Amondaniel, that gets a pass.
And then... I think all I will say about the level 89 trial, to save you all from a torrent of screeing, is that Thancred is one of the most accomodating off-tanks I have ever had the pleasure to work with.

Our last tour of Sharlayn was more excellent character moments, and then we're off to Ultima Thule (Latin/Greek for groupings of islands, apparently, which made a great deal of sense once I was there).
I wasn't in the least bit worried for Thancred - I'd been expecting the fake-out deaths for pretty much the entire expansion - and I'd also remembered clearly that we'd just got the Azem crystal upgraded. It was a strange last zone, and probably a little too long. It is probably my only criticism, and maybe the ratchet of tension wasn't there (because of Azem crystal), even before Y'shtola mentions it. But that's not say the final ascent, with Alphinaud and Alisaie, wasn't tense, because the sense of looming dread was everywhere. And Emet there, at the last, to pass the torch to the Sundered world! Our time is done, we lost. Just make sure the Star goes on.
The Dead Ends couldn't quite match the spectecal of Amaurot, but it was still good. And then, it's time for bonkers anime end! Of course Zenos can't get over his rematch-boner, but riding onthe back of Shinryu towards the end of all things was pretty bloody insane. By the time he's there at the end with his scythe, I told him the middle option - "Think what you will" - because, like Ardbert, the times that really matter were the quiet moments, the calm after the storm. I rejected him and his way of life to the end.

Credits! I'm once of these crazies who actually let them play all the way through, and they did pictures of the whole journey, from the Waking Sands to the Final Day. And the personal touch at the end is fantastic. More tears! So, that was it. All creation saved, Scions back to being an underground organisation, and the realm safely under the watch of the Grand Company of Eorzea. At least Emet left a shopping list of places we should see!

tl;dr
A*, Square. Many tissues were sacrificed.

[yorjen]

just finished the 5th area and HOLY SHIT that was intense, so far absolutly fucking astounding

[ICountFrom0]

Without spoilers, but have you thought about how much work went into this?

The entire layout of the second area is built to make this possible. All the places with fights are not QUITE in sight of any place before the spoiler. From the western edge, everything looks, and always will look normal.

And it's amazing.

[Lyth]

End of MSQ Spoilers

I think that the most brilliant insight that the Endwalker scenario writers had was when they realized halfway through that a depressed Kefka and a bored Sephiroth just weren't going to cut it as main villains, and rescued the plot with the Convocation and Loporrits. Hyth, Emet, and Venat absolutely hard carried the MSQ. They also very cleverly fleshed out Azem's persona through your mentor while leaving plenty of room for personal interpretation (and grape/volcano references, if you wanted to play into it). It's wonderful how closely our current family of nerds trying to save the world mirrors our old one.

[Rosenstrauch]

Alright, I am steadily making my way through Zone Five. And so, my thoughts.

Goddamn time travel.

Now that that's out of the way—the characters in Elpis—including Elpis itself—are all very charming. There is a lot of innocence to be had here, and not simply in the form of Meteion. Consider the blasé approach the Ancients take to ending the lives of their creations.

On the same subject, it is a little weird to treat that as anything particularly odd. I mean, if you're a crafter, odds are you've killed thousands of mobs for their drops. And even if you're not, given all the dungeons and quests in this game you're bound to have killed many things simply for being in your way, or on your way to something you wanted to do.

But that said—the innocent way they unmake their creations is reminiscent of the way people are unmade by the effects of the Final Days.

Speaking of Meteion, she is cute as a button and I love her. I'm afraid I've been a bit spoiled regarding her. Just a bit. But I would like to see how this goes. Also neat to see that she's been imbued with the same powers that are later known as the Echo. They kept the 5.2 revelation that this was a natural thing for the Ancients, but it's interesting to see that they can grant an artificial version of it. I just hope she doesn't turn into Zenos. That would be awful.

Emet-Selch describes the process of transformation to be vainglorious. So says the Sorcerer of Eld (tremble before his glory). I can't help but wonder if either of his Hades forms in Shadowbringers are as much an extension of Zodiark's tempering as they are him simply showing off.

The means of altering and erasing memories—it's not surprising that the Ancients would have such a thing. Given that Hermes—rather, Fandaniel—was the one to make it, I can't help but wonder at Amon's cutting off Owen's research... which in part lead to our cure for Tempering. Or his acceptance of our means to shield others from Tempering, preventing their memories (among other things) from being altered by primal energies.

Hermes being such a bleeding heart is such a fantastic shift from his earlier (later?) appearance as Amon and Fandaniel. It makes me wonder if Fancy Dan was lying, even to himself, about the disconnect he felt from the memories of his Ancient self. That rather than having rejected it, he became a person split across two perspectives—the sadistic and cruel Amon and the empathetic and intro/extrospective Hermes—and this coupled with latching onto the views of the Emperor Xande clone is what led to him becoming so intensely nihilistic.

And then I hit a level barrier.

EDIT: Holy hell, talk about an intro. Venat, you are amazing. And it is fascinating to see the trio of friends expand to a quartet, and one that feels as natural as this.

I suppose this confirms that the Blessing of Light is not tempering at all. Which, well, is nice to see confirmed instead of not being discussed at all. It is simply a mark of protection—I imagine it is just a means by which Hydaelyn takes bullets meant for us, so to speak. Which is to say I still don't agree with the aggressive "It's always been the Blessing of Light that protects you" approach from earlier in the story, with no mention of the Echo's protection. But I can see why they stressed that it protects us, at least.

They continue to straddle the line in regards to time travel rules—suggesting that we might change this fellowship's future, but not our own. But as mentioned earlier, the entire reason Elidibus sent us here is because he remembered us being there. Time will tell if this is a closed loop, a split timeline, or some weird thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around...

… oh my God. I was not prepared to have all my criticisms of Hydaelyn's behavior be taken up by Venat herself. I just, I am, I can't... I think I've found my favorite character in this expansion. Thank you, Ishikawa, for actually making me love this woman. Maybe not as much as Ryne or Minfilia, but I'll be damned if my expectations weren't subverted in this best way I could hope for.

EDIT 02: Finished the dungeon. Saw all I needed to see. 10/10 delivery. I am now entirely sold on this character. But holy hell, time travel headaches.

Final Edit: I have finished with the fifth zone, and enjoyed every moment of it—and while I expected to do so, everything about that zone surpassed my expectations.
I will probably get down to finishing tomorrow or the next day.

[Alleo]

LvL 88 and ready to write some ramblings on my experiences with this expansion. Right now though Shadowbringers is still in the top but the later parts of this expansion have at least made it another very good experience too.

I do have to say though that imo SE should have taken down the number of "escord quests"...there were situations where it was fitting but other times I wish we could have decided if we explore the place ourself or not. But I get the feeling that SE really likes to milk their new systems to death.

I am also not doing most of the side quests right now because I want to do the MSQ as smooth as possible, so no spoilers about those in any of my comments.

Old Sharlayan (including its other zone)

I really liked the arrival at this city. From finally talking to Hydealyn again to seeing the city the first time. It was great. Since I was interested about Hydaelyn the most I also started the split there. Labyrinthos was fine, it did feel a bit boring at times. Still some good humor and some good informations at the end. Also got the feeling that Hydealyn was good and really wanted to help us.

I snickered a bit when the forum scene came and they took away my characters second pair of horns. Just the idea that she casually puts them away for that. Krile and her ponytail was cute though.

Still the whole part left me feeling slightly frustrated because not a single one of the scions even thought about the zone being some kind of bunker...even if that may or may not be its true purpose. Also not sure how to feel about the blessing of light suddenly being the thing that stops tempering...so we could have bascially became tempered when Middy took it away? Well thank god then that we somehow did not have a fight.

Otherwise the city itself was beautiful and I could see myself living there.

Also the mother of the twins is a delight. But nobody in this game really wants to hug or show too much emotion at such reunions or goodbyes which is a bit sad...

Thavnair

Another beautiful map. I enjoyed the characters and the locations. I loved the part with Vrthra and Estinien and that we finally have a child of Middy that just really really loves these humans and that would even ignore his brothers cry for help. I hope he survives it all.

I groaned a bit when our elephant lady (sorry really bad with names) just walked so far away from us...did everyone just forget that these towers spawn horrible monsters? And did our character just forget that Fanny boy was near just a short while ago? I did not came as a big suprise that she then was caught...the scene where she was put in was still horrible.

The lore drop about Fandaniel was fascinating..but also like "of course its somehow connected to Allagans again".

First dungeon and aftermath

I liked the visuals and the fights really were spicy. Of course I still got to get a feeling for the summoner too. Still strange how easily we not only found a solution for the tempering problem but also for the destruction of the tower itself. The writers also love to use either Ysthola or Graha for spells that needs to save people. It does come in handy that he learned that one just a bit ago and was good enough to save all of us. I think it was a bit too much but of course I am also happy that the NPCs were saved.

Vrthras words at that time felt like a bit of a death flag. Like SE was forshadowing that we will again lose some people dear to us. Having the twins in the scene after the talk really did not help.

The new concept was nicely introduced and I already felt that it would be one the most important parts of the expansion.

The "eating" scene was fantastic and I really felt that the words from the dragon still haunted our character.

Garlemald including its dungeon

For me this was the worst zone of the whole expansion. I really love Ishgard but I still dont like most of its zones because of the snow...so having Garlemald be mostly that just made it not appealing. I also dont like their architecture at all.

This all combined with the fact that the Garleans we met first back stab us all really got on my nerves. I did not really feel sad for the two sisters and I deeply wished that Qintus would not be someone we would have to rely on...after all we came to him with two "children" and did everything Jullus said. And as a thank you he puts these collars on them both and later uses the oil to power war machines instead of the train.

Then they go and cry about their past that is hundreds of years gone. Yes it was horrible that you were driven out of your own homeland but you have built yourself a new nation. A nation that seeminlgy even had a summer phase. And then he goes on about how we did not accept being one under Garlemald...the same country that should know how it feels to get their country taken away.

Thankfully Jullus was a good character. We learned about his suffering and even though he was harsh, he still had a good heart.

I was grateful that we did not have to deal with Quintus for too long. I dont think peace would have truly been an option with someone like him around.

Of course when all was good, the tragedy has to strike. And somehow we get captured....The things that follow are good and bad. I do like that we felt helpless but everything else was not that great. Yes Zenos said that he enjoyed the feelings he got when he was in the other bodies but unlike us he had a mostly save ride back to his own. I dont get it why they thought it was good to drop us into the destroyed city...we barely made it out alive. What would Zenos have done if we died there? Also what did it really do for the story? The scions saw throught it right away and somehow eventhough we were crawling on the floor, the WoL managed to reach them right in time to stop him from doing any damage. They could have at least made another RP fight were he hurts them a bit before leaving. After it was over it felt like padding...like giving Zenos something to do...as if our character would need even more motives to go after him...

Zone after Garlemald / First trial

Well we already go to the moon but thankfully Hydealny has bought us some time. The place is kinda empty but still beautiful and I really like the ancient here.

I am not sure what I should think about the shades. I guess it answers the question that they still exist. But quite a few seems to not really accept their fate? Or was it just the fact that "they" could no longer act as the will of the planet? Anyway my heart felt heavy when Hythlo appears...I wonder if Azem was also so against Zodiark because they knew he would be one of those that would sacrifice themselves? But at least he seems to be on our side which is good.

Also golden good boi is best boi! And he should get all the pets in the world. I am sure now that Hydealyn cant be evil if that is her servant.

Of course Fan Fan and Zenos had to destroy the good mood by being there but at least Fandaniel also destroyed Zenos plan and took over Zodiark himself.

At least in the following cutscene its clear that the shades dont want the planet to be destroyed. I am though not sure what he does with their souls? Are they released at the end or did he completely absorb them?

As the first trial we fight Zodiark and after that Fanny boi reveals his evil masterplan. I do like it that we would have lost any way. If we had not fought him he would have destroyed the world with his own hand (and after that himself anyways).

First I did not like what they have done with Zodiark. But after a bit of thinking it makes sense. In all those years he always has been the tool. Even the Ascians wanted him to be complete so that they can get their people back and live a great awesome life again. So its fitting that in the end he just remained another ones tool. A tool that was created to forestall the Final Days, the real threat.

A few pages back I read (before doing that zone) that Hydaelyn was shown in a too good light even though she was fine with sacrifing the shards. After reading that I feared that this would be the point were we will find out that she is another "bad" guy to be disposed off. After doing it myself I am honestly not sure were that view comes from. It was quite clear that she was not all knowing thus she simply prepared another route if we should fail. I really doubt that she would be fine with the destruction of the other liveforms but in the end if it came to the worst, she would at least be able to save a few. Her goal was still though to not lose any at all.

Then came the rabbits...the tiny cute adorable awesome rabbits. Which I wanted to hug and pet all day. And the shocking information that the moon was a freaking space ship. After that it was 100% clear what Sharlayan was up too.

I really enjoyed my time with the rabbits.

Next dungeon + new Zone (holy mother of Hydaelyn awesome)

So of course poor Thavnair was the first to get hit (cant do much with the old zones after all) and it was gut wrenching. Finally the game hit the notes it did in Shadowbringers with the sin eaters. But this time even their souls would be gone. It was absolutely shocking and kept me on my toes, especially with best boi Elephant and the baby.

Vrthra continues being the most awesome dragon in the world and finally even overcomes his own worries.

The final days really feel like a huge threat and with every NPC death I just imagined that their souls would now be gone...for me this is probably the most horrible fate one can have. (Okay Fandaniel would have loved it...)

Afterwards we have a bit of a break and the WoL is tasked with going to the first and visiting Elidibus. Thankfully all is still good there. The talk with Elidibus was emotional but I could not stop my laughter with his little resentment at the end towards Hydealyn. I wonder if he will think different when he knows the whole truth behind it.

I was a bit afraid of the time traveling part and at the end I was left a bit disappointed but for other reasons. The zone was beautiful and our partners awesome. Hythlo is such a kind and beautiful person with a good sense of humor and you could really see Emets personality shining through. I wish we could have more adventures with them. Also it does kinda confirm that the tempering (and probably thousands of years of their mission) really did change Emet. After all they did know about death. They even choose it themseves if they wanted to. I guess the difference was that with the Final days people could indeed not choose it.

Venat was another delight. And a lot of the stuff around Hydaelyn makes even more sense.

Up until the end I hoped that we would be able to save their timeline after all the talk about not being able to change our future but maybe theirs...turns out that of course thats not possible because of that stupid memory device. So everything happens as it was meant to be also because Venat decides to keep most of it to herself. I really dont get the logic behind it.

At least the zone did show that even at that time the Ancients had a bit of a problem of seeing anything not them as something alive. When Hermes said goodbye to that one creation I was in tears. I wished our character could have said a bit at that. But any kind of sympathy for Hermes went out of the window at the end. He was ready to let millions of liveforms die...including all of his creations that he suffered for...

Honestly that zone was probably the most depressing one right now. To give us a glimpse of it, to talk about how it would not change our future but maybe theirs just to end it like that...all my hopes that we might have used their future to maybe journey to their cities in some side quests in future expansion...all gone T_T

Edit: Great kicked from my 1.000 queue and three 2002 when trying to log in again...of course now I am back to 7.400...I just want to continue the story....T_T

[Nick_Andrews]

My first complaint about Endwalker's MSQ

Yes, introduce us a new character only to be killed off together with another character that we have never met offscreen in the next quest. Seriously, what's the point in introducing these characters to us if you're just gonna kill them off? What, was it to challenge Alphinaud's ideals and make him question whether what we're doing is the right thing to do? Haven't we gotten that point already with the Crystal Braves??? It's pointless and waste of time. That's not good writing.

[symbiote129]

My first complaint about Endwalker's MSQ

Yes, introduce us a new character only to be killed off together with another character that we have never met offscreen in the next quest. Seriously, what's the point in introducing these characters to us if you're just gonna kill them off? What, was it to challenge Alphinaud's ideals and make him question whether what we're doing is the right thing to do? Haven't we gotten that point already with the Crystal Braves??? It's pointless and waste of time. That's not good writing.

Which zone you talking about? Garlemald? If yes, I think if wasn't meant for the character development of Alphinaud. The focus was simply the tragedy of the nation that is Garlemald. All these people you meet is there to show how f'ed up they were raised. Remind yourself that Garlemald was our Nr.1 enemy country that had beliefs and ideals that almost mirror Nazi Germany. They were raised to see other nations/races with hostility and as their inferiors. Garlemald Empire started almost four generations ago, starting from Solus to his great-grandson Zenos but even before that they already existed as a Republic for centuries. Garleans did not really have a great history with other magical races, so starting with Solus' generation, their hate even intensified.