Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

[EdwinLi]

There are no multiple timelines involved in Elpis. Those events are located in time prior to the split between the "bad future" timeline and ours.

When we travel there, it's not "our Elpis" with a second copy left untouched for another WoL to visit. Everything that happens there forms the past of both timelines together, and our actions become part of the other timeline's history as well as ours.

I tried to map it out as a better explanation. This is still rough but I hope it makes sense.

The key thing to get your mind around is, from the perspective of our current timeline, our visit to Elpis occurred in our past – and from the perspective of someone in the bad timeline, our visit (ours specifically, not an alternate self's) is part of their timeline as well. There doesn't need to be a second alternate event.

As I said it is only one of many theories since we do not know which time travel theory SE is using.

In my opinion the Absolute and Flexable timeline theory makes the most sense since certain moments in time are designed to happen no matter what but how that absolute moment happens is flexible so when it happens, why, how, and where are always altering until that absolute moment happens.

A lot of The FF14 story follows a lot on this theory as well such as 3.0 expansion being different dialogue wise if players did or did not do 2.0 dragoon job quest. The events of 3.0 is marked as a absolute point in the timeline but certain aspects become altered due to the flexible part of the timeline leading up to those events.

It is the same for Endwalker story as a lot of events are absolute events but certain aspect of those events are altered in varies levels based on if WoL did or did not do certain things before events of Endwalker. The harbor cutscne is the most important one as it is greatly different from someone who did not do any raid and trial side story contents compared to if their WoL completed all Raid and trial content before Endwalker.

[Theozilla]

As I said it is only one of many theories since we do not know which time travel theory SE is using.

In my opinion the Absolute and Flexable timeline theory makes the most sense since certain moments in time are designed to happen no matter what but how that absolute moment happens is flexible so when it happens, why, how, and where are always altering until that absolute moment happens.

A lot of The FF14 story follows a lot on this theory as well such as 3.0 expansion being different dialogue wise if players did or did not do 2.0 dragoon job quest. The events of 3.0 is marked as a absolute point in the timeline but certain aspects become altered due to the flexible part of the timeline leading up to those events.

It is the same for Endwalker story as a lot of events are absolute events but certain aspect of those events are altered in varies levels based on if WoL did or did not do certain things before events of Endwalker. The harbor cutscne is the most important one as it is greatly different from someone who did not do any raid and trial side story contents compared to if their WoL completed all Raid and trial content before Endwalker.

I mean we basically do know what type of time travel rules FFXIV operates, it's whatever the writers choose for it be in their story.

For stuff like Alexander and Endwalker, they follow causal loops/predestination time travel, while stuff like G'raha Tia and ShadowBringers follow multiverse-theory/parallel timeline creation rules. I doubt we'll ever get an exact explanation of why time travel in FFXIV is sometimes the former and other times the latter, as they are plot devices in service of the narrative not the other way around.

[Claire_Pendragon]

My main 2 complaints.
(1) Hermes wasnt fleshed out well enough, and im 99% sure the rush to his character was mostly likely due to #2
(2) The story was trying to be unpredictable, to such a degree, Im confident they actually made some sweeping last minute changes to the story. And because of the last minute changes to try and make it less predictable, it actually hurt the story a bit. Ret cons and all. (some evidence to support this range from the level layout of the final zone, to the game claiming your location in the final EX trial is incorrect, as someone in this thread also pointed out. and the myriad amounts of plot holes, and forced ret cons.)

But, even if its a disjointed mess compared to the rest of the game, its still had amazing moments, that once I turned my brain off, were amazingly fun. (Honestly wouldnt have taken much to fix minor plot holes. There was enough base information to slightly tune these holes into working)

Ill forever remember pretty much all of Garlemald, and the scene/final solo duty.

And the scene with the sundering was the absolute most emotional scene for me.

[Remedi]

I think you ppl aren't realizing the elephant in the room, which allowed that twinning of time to exist in the first place which is the fractured dimension in which Etheirys exists. My 2 cents is that they'll make so that only trough there you can actually change time because time itself is wonky between source and shards yet interlinked in some way (Remember for Cylva as soon as the 13th fell she was sent to the 1st and I doubt she's the worst underling of the century that took 10k+ years to do Loghrif's and Mitron's bidding)

[vormela]

I also think the time and interdimensionality (?) stuff has existed since the relationship of the shards were developed (so...I guess the voidy shard and our little friend in the Rising Stones). So any new complaints sans actual attempts to unravel it I just ignore. I am too stupid to figgure that stuff out and to me it is really not as interesting to focus on as stuff like Garlemald, Zenos, the Pandaemonium stuffs, dragons, and connections they have made between characters. Anyway, you aren't alone in your thinking.

We are untempering people with flying pigs, teaching rabbits to cook food for us, listening to moogles recount the song of oblivion, wondering why there is a mob named Lycidas running around in Azys Lla, and infiltrating high security clearance science laboratories. I have enough to worry about.

[Mansion]

I'm sure this has already been said as I don't feel like reading the 30 pages of this thread so far, so I'll make it short!

I don't think Endwalker's peaks were worth the valleys, and it makes me think I should have two angles to 6.0 MSQ: Lore and Gameplay.
-Gameplay is the easiest : it was meh, close to bad sometimes. The filler parts are the exact same problem than Stormblood in my opinion. It's great lore / world building in itself, but the main storyline gets lost. And it's hard to forget that the world is literally ending. I was very annoyed to be wandering around Loporites, Elpis or Labyrinthos when the apocalypse is going on. I can't put this in the background.
-Lore, in itself it is rich and very interesting. I wish I could have enjoyed Elpis more, because the context would not let me just sit back and enjoy the flowers (literally). Overall, as I said, just like Stormblood : it is good in itself. The Azim Steppes story was great, I just didn't care when I had to go through it to free Ala Mhigo in the first place.

My main gripes are these:
- I don't like that the big plot points are introduced so far in both the expansion and the game's life cycle. Dynamis could have been mentioned earlier, Météion is not a great plot point at all for me. It didn't feel like the end of a 10 year+ story, and it's hard not to feel like it is a lazy "retcon".
- I don't like that FFXIV writers force "fan favourites" down my throat everytime they introduce a new character that gains popularity. While I guess it is great when you enjoy said character, it makes it ten times worse when you don't. That's what I felt for G'raha Tia and Emet Selch. Emet was good in 5.0, but it should have ended there. Now it feels each time a character is successful, the writers get them shoe-horned in the story for "cheap likes" and that's irritating. That also makes me doubt that the story actually is written in detail in advance when these things just pop in conveniently after bursts of online popularity. It also applies to the Scions in a way. I understand the need for them to all have their moment as this is the "End", but some moments made some characters annoying or "meh" when I actually always appreciated them. My main example is Alisaie here, I really enjoy her since Stormblood, I think she works great with Alphinaud, but the introduction of G'raha made her poorer in personality in my opinion. Which makes it hard for her to have a meaningful impact on me when the story needs it. I know this is a JRPG and chracters usually have two-three traits that make their whole personnality, but I feel like it wasn't the case before and it happens now for some characters. But I'll admit some others were just great (Urianger in Sharlayan for instance).
- While I never thought FFXIV had deep and meaningful concepts, Endwalker had me roll my eyes quite a lot. Now, I know I have burned out my poor brain through literature and media studies for years, which makes me hardly impressed in most media, but damn the whole "meaning of life and death" was underwhelming here. The trope of "I can't understand life thus I must end it" is just boring to me, and very poor and shallow in Endwalker.

In the end, it's still a greatly enjoyable story. I'm just very picky because I have cared so much for the game ever since that I can't help feeling some kind of disappointment at this stage. Yet I am happy this is the end of a cycle, and it was overall a great experience to take part in. I don't feel like I need to get in for the new cycle, and that's great.

[vormela]

I was very annoyed to be wandering around Loporites, Elpis or Labyrinthos when the apocalypse is going on. I can't put this in the background.
-Lore, in itself it is rich and very interesting. I wish I could have enjoyed Elpis more, because the context would not let me just sit back and enjoy the flowers (literally).

...

Now it feels each time a character is successful, the writers get them shoe-horned in the story for "cheap likes" and that's irritating. That also makes me doubt that the story actually is written in detail in advance when these things just pop in conveniently after bursts of online popularity.

Was replying to last post, sorry for confusion.

I felt this way too. Then I realized that if they couldn't make Hydaelyn an antagonist then they would have to have a third force...a pre-existing one, new one, or one that arose during the creation of Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

If they were to do that... they would have to make it believable. And Elpis was how they wanted to show it. The fan service part was just the icing.

I think Emet-Selch as the cowboy who could teach water snakes to fly looking over his shoulder proudly after we were begging for his help was goofy enough for even the neutral parties to appreciate. I was laughing so hard. Everyone has to acknowledge the Emet-Selch fanbase before finishing the story of Endwalker. That is written into the game now. And it is glorious.

But that's not all of Elpis. If we didn't go back to the actual source of the problem I just think the old guard here would have a lot more complaints about Dynamis coming out of nowhere. I started playing this year and after playing straight through all the story, I have been under the impression that Hydaelyn was going to be evil in some way. We live in pandemic times and there is enough scary stuff going on. To make a source of hope and goodwill and comfort into a creepy brainwashing being would just be not a good message right now.

[Rannie]

I hate to be that picky person but I'm about to rip my hair out if I read or hear "I daresay" one more time. It's like they watched Rising of the Shield Hero and thought the chick repeating that, English dubbed version, was the best thing since sliced bread.

[EdwinLi]

I am still a bit curious how will they handle the aftermath of the Final Days and Blasphemies in the world now within the new regions for Season 2.

Considering we may go to locations that have very little contact with Eorzea and regions that do make contact with Eorzea, their knowledge about the Final Days are most likely very low to a point for them the Final Days events were some kind of unknown event.

Not to mention regions that will have high amount of people who can easily turn into Blasphemies.

I said before in a comment in a different post but this does open up opportunity to introduce a new Job that is created from the aftermath of the Final Days within these regions such as a Demon Hunter Job.

Eorzea and regions that do have contact with Eorzea are probably the locations with the least consequences of the aftermath for the Final Days since story wise, WoL dealt with any major Blasphemies problem in 6.0 job quests and the information the Scions provided about the Final days to each region help them minimize the spread of Blasphemies.

However, regions that have little or no contact with Eorzea and any location that do make contact with Eorzea may suffer greatly in the aftermath of the Final Days to a point a New Job born from a new organization dedicated to hunting down the remaining Blasphemies maybe created in one of those regions.

Not to mention how will these regions react to WoL and what he/she knows about the Final days because for these regions they may even be completely unaware who the WoL is and what happened in Eorzea along with the regions that make contact with Eorzea in Season 1 storyline.

We have to keep in mind WoL's fame only extends to Eorzea and regions that do make contact with Eorzea but locations, such as the New World regions, that have very little contact with Eorzea and regions that do make contact with Eorzea probably know very little about what happened in Season 1 storyline to a point they may even be completely unaware Season 1 storyline happened.

[Theozilla]

I don't know if an entire playable job will created out of the aftermath of the Blasphemies, at least no more so the previous expansions new jobs depended on their respective locations.

Also considering the soul stone mechanic of jobs, there will likely be some pre-established in-universe history to the job (Machinists would technically be the "youngest" of all jobs with soul stones, right?)