Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

[Cleretic]

My prediction is that the general opinions about the expansion will include 'incorrect amount of Emet-Selch'.

I don't know if it's too much or too little Emet-Selch just yet, but I can guarantee that no matter how much Emet-Selch is in the story, it will be considered incorrect.

[vormela]

Regarding preconceptions about tempering and WoL (I am in third zone now and attuned to the second aetherite):

I am glad it was clarified early on! I thought we were tempered because of our prejudice against Garlemald.

Hearing that Imperial song for the first time outside of a "meanwhile in Garlemald" scene was creepy and there are so many good moments like this... that was without a doubt one of the most impactful moments so far.

The chains for the Garlemald symbol and them being underdogs of sorts I understood (and I thought this was why Emet-Selch chose them...still haven\\\\'t clarified the third-eye thing) but the leader explaining the symbol and color symbolism and then leaving a huge actual bloodstain on the flag was just macabre and great. Felt so hollow compared to the two girls. I was wondering how their whole dependence on strong rulers that Gaius monologued about would play out with no leader. I guess I will find out more when I continue the story tomorrow. The whole thing feels very appropriate right now with nationalism and post-industrial societal problems and cultural stagnation and is very timely. Very artfully rendered and affecting.

As for favorite scenes up to this level 83ish point in the story in the third zone,

(I am right after the twins and WoL get escorted and eventually are able to attune to the aetherite) I think my favorite scene so far has been dialogue between Alphinaud/Alisaie where Alisaie figures out her ideals and Alphinaud clarifies his.

I also loved and was completely surprised by one of the first truly emotional scenes being a heart-to-heart between the three grown men Scions. (Concerning the telophoroi.)

Emet-Selch in Fandaniel\\\\'s memories being basically a multilevel marketing door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman desperate to put his work on he underlings so he can steal their work cracked me up so much. I just love him. I loved him since he just strolls up dressed like an emperor and no one recognizes him except Uberdanger the Nerd and he is fine with that. I know they will rip my heart out over and over about Emet-Selch by the time this is through and I will love it.

I was expecting Amon because of the 5.5 Owen commentary and the "SNAP" but I didn\\\\'t know it would be Fandaniel. But I love it. The voice is growing on me and I laugh at almost every single one of his lines. The voice actor nails it. As disgusted as I currently am by this character, I think he will be one of my favorites by the end. I love how he is bored and flabbergasted by Zenos\\\\' one-track mind... can you imagine how he must see Zenos, having been around so many technological advances??? He met base instinct face to face. We know he is the biggest genius in the game but they are actually evenly matched at this point. I am surprised they can have any conversations at all. Whatever their ultimate goal is, I am not clear on it yet, which works out just fine storywise so far.

[TheCookieGod]

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

I agree with you. The main story was amazing and one of the best FF stories ever told, but yeah, what you describe is on point.

[Hustensaft]

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

I felt the exact same way...

[Kisshu]

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

I can only agree 100% with this

When Endsinger said someone was trying to break in, I was saying to myself I hoped it wasn't Zenos, and behold, there he was.

A big part of the finale imo hinges on how big a Zenos fan you are, and for someone who wanted him to be left behind in SB it was near awful. The whole final part was a clear attempt to set it up as FFXIV's version of Cloud and Sephiroth's final battle in FFVII.

Zenos could be removed from EW and the story would not have suffered, might even be better.

I kinda wanna glamour the chicken suit and watch the final fist fight again, just for the lols.

[yajnaji]

Quick take.

After Elpis, I lost interest. The Labyrinthos segment could be much smaller (it reeks of filler) and after that its just... I don't know, too much fluff and too predictable. It felt way off.

I still liked it, but again after Elpis it becomes pretty mediocre. Honestly it looks rushed and unfinished.

[Fenral]

Got 90k'd in the middle of a big scene but...

Holy mother of arc welding, Batman. Of all the people to bring back now. But now we know why Ishikawa kept G'raha around...

Level 82-3 zone:

This is the first we've heard of Corvos, right? G'raha's profile in EE1 just says southern Ilsabard, and this is also the first mention of his clan in relation to House Darnus, which feels like it should have been brought up back in 2.X when people where already drawing obvious connections.

But apparently to Garleans, said region is the promised land, and Sharlayan likes it enough to want to copy it's climate This would probably be more impactful if Ilsabard wasn't a giant cloud on official maps.

AND I'm really not sure how I feel about the G'raha backstory retcons overall. Right now it seems like he's being set up for (IMO) the worst possible resolution to his character, and Ishikawa doesn't work that way (or, hasn't since 2.5) so I'm holding out for a twist.

Level 83-4 Zone:

So, that was a thing that just happened. Expac is going off the rails!

Lopoorits are the beast tribe of... Hydaelyn Herself? I don't think anyone would have put money on that.

There's probably no Hummingway because Nero killed him back in 2.0.

Level 85:

Things are getting very Berserk in here. This is basically Falconia, with the laws of reality going to s*kupo*t and strong leadership being the only salvation.

I had a feeling from it's last words that the Blasphemy was that merchant from the level 80 quests. Ouch.

And more Corvos mentions. If this isn't about to be a full zone, why do they keep mentioning it?

Level 85-6 zone:

Okay, I remembered the Zeal artwork was a zone we hadn't accounted for yet, but was not expecting actual Chrono Trigger. With Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus as our tagalong NPCs because why the hell not. That's some final season YOLO right there.

Meteion is... that female voice we heard along with the Sound after Zodiark bought it. Almost positive, but this is where I took a sleep break, so we'll see.

FINISHED! But I have been up for 24 hours and will need sleep to organize my thoughts. Leaving the above for now so people can follow my insanity.


87 dungeon:

First of all, being able to run a Trust dungeon with Emet-Selch, Hythlodaeus, and Hydaelyn is some A+ wish fulfillment. We had no reason to expect anything like it even in our most indulgent fantasies.

Second, as a fellow bleeding heart, I adore Hermes. Sure, he's a bit of a strawman at times, but the way he feels alienated by his grief, like's he's wrong for feeling sadness where others don't, really brings me back to my 2.5 self. I think he's the first antagonist we've gotten whose feelings felt like my own to such an extent, though his fall into despair is sad to watch.

Venat is fantastic. She addresses basically every criticism ever leveled at Hydaelyn, while also giving us insight into the seat of "Azem" without doing anything that might constrain the player's own understanding of their WoL and past self. Her monologue set to "Answers" was likewise chilling. As a main theme for the entire saga it's a bit grim (not like "Footsteps" is better), but contextualized as an anthem of Hydaelyn Herself, it's perfect.

Meteion is a tragic victim of conservation of detail, but I like how we're given the option to assume she's important ahead of any direct exposition. The WoL has played JRPGs before. Even though she comes out of left field (or FF11, to be more accurate), she's exactly the kind of omipotent avatar of nihilism that marks a Final Fantasy finale.

And the time loop. Pure insanity.

88-89 zone:

This is filler. Also a curtain call for basically everyone we've ever met, but it needed to happen.

Tataru crafting the AF gear this time around is great.

The final meetings with everyone as they discuss the future a death flag like it's going out of style. If G'raha absolutely must be paired off with someone because certain kinds of people don't like even the tiniest insinuation that he could see the WoL that way, I would still rather he get with Alisaie than some new random character or a catgirl harem, even though they are still 8 years apart. That said, the way basically every other sentence out of his mouth sounds like a thinly-veiled proposal continues to sustain me in these dark times. Companion romances when?

I'm glad Urianger finally got his closure on Moenbryda, even though there was quite a bit of meandering, and the search radius on the quest was entirely too big.

Level 90 zone:

Welp, Yoshida did it. He got me praying to Hydaelyn.

That dread from 2.5, that every single overlord kill after Nabriales would come at the cost of a companion's life, it finally came back in full force. That Thancred could just be gone, and for ever "victory" after to end with one more companion erased, was actually too much. Even thinking logically, like "what about the teleporters, or that crystal, or the Trusts for the 90 dungeon" stopped help as soon as Y'shtola told me that I couldn't use Hydaelyn's gift to bring them back. (Though it was nice that she finally grew a proper personality in her final moments.

And then it was G'raha's turn, and I started procrastinating. I wasn't sure if I was lying when I agreed to one more promise, because I needed it, too. And then it happened and I went completely numb. I needed to believe that Hydaelyn wouldn't have tested us all and given me that gift just so I could sacrifice my companions one last time for the "greater" good. So I prayed.

And guess what?

That really specifically useless detail from that early aetherophysics lecture was a plant. And the payoff was Emet-Selch doing what he always does, making everything better just by being there, and Hydaelyn's last gift could finally be used the way it needed to be used. But gods that hurt. That is something a story is allowed to do once and only once, and they pulled it off, but please, Yoshida, don't pull anything like that again.


And okay, who the hell decided to name that quest "You're Not Alone," after a certain song/moment from FFIX that is probably still one of the best low->high moments in the series? It's mean. Cruel and manipulative, I tell you. I couldn't tell if it was meant to be reassuring or ironic.

(I rewatched later, and the second option in G'raha's scene does kind of play Ishikawa's hand early, like, "no really, the writers wouldn't do that," but some masochistic part of me is still glad I chose to believe, even as it hurt more in the moment.)

Final dungeon and boss:

Even if it feels like a retread of Shadowbringers' final dungeon, these two are kind of a duology, so I'll allow it. (I got the minion on my story clear, so I guess that prayer was answered, too.)

The Endsinger is a great final boss design. I like how they've started leaning into that Yoshitaka Amano look for major bosses. The lead-in cutscene was intense, and in my pettiness I enjoyed the look on Alisaie's face as the teleporter button was pressed. Sacrificing myself for my companions (and having them hate it) is one more item off my FFXIV bucket list.

The Shinryu save didn't come completely out of nowhere, at least, but by the time it was happening, I was like "wait, this is what they wanted to do with Zenos?"

The post-boss grudge match was great. Really, the one thing I wanted from Zenos, and we got it.

And then the finale, the world is saved, and the Scions' go their separate ways, for now. Probably setting up a round of lower stakes, more intimate adventures following smaller groups of companions for a bit. If this is the new status quo that we'll return to after each new adventure, I can get behind that.

[WhiteArchmage]

Got 90k'd in the middle of a big scene but...

Holy mother of arc welding, Batman. Of all the people to bring back now. But now we know why Ishikawa kept G'raha around...

Level 82-3 zone:

This is the first we've heard of Corvos, right? G'raha's profile in EE1 just says southern Ilsabard, and this is also the first mention of his clan in relation to House Darnus, which feels like it should have been brought up back in 2.X when people where already drawing obvious connections.

But apparently to Garleans, said region is the promised land, and Sharlayan likes it enough to want to copy it's climate This would probably be more impactful if Ilsabard wasn't a giant cloud on official maps.

AND I'm really not sure how I feel about the G'raha backstory retcons overall. Right now it seems like he's being set up for (IMO) the worst possible resolution to his character, and Ishikawa doesn't work that way (or, hasn't since 2.5) so I'm holding out for a twist.

about the lvl 82-3 stuff

Kind of? It got mentioned in Zenos' side story, his master was from there. But we didn't really KNOW anything about it, also there's a... thing pointed in the World Map called "The Anchorite at Corvos", along the Corvos Narrow opposite Thavnair. But actually in-game? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the first time. I was very interested in it a few months back because... well, the Anchorite at Corvos sounds VERY ominous and I wanna see what's up wih it.

I don't know if the dev team had intended on it being the Garleans' "birthplace" all along or it just happened to be a place they had a name for and better to use somewhere that already existed on the map than to make up somewhere. The extension(addition?) of it into Garlean and G'raha's backstory... interesting, is all I'll say...

[dragonflie]

Some after thoughts:

With Zodiark's death and all the sacrificed Ancient going back into the aetherial sea, at some point they are going to be reborn, and and likely keep their creation powers since those sacrificed were not really sundered I think. So down the line, you are gonna have a bunch of characters able to act like gods again. It's probably not something the game will explore down the line, but still food for thought.

The whole time shenanigan. G'raha's original timeline is now an oddity, cause if we caused a time loop to happen, then G'raha's future should have never happened in the first place, yet it needed to in order to save the first. Cause if we died in G'raha's timeline, then the time loop wouldn't have happened, and Venat might have never caused the sundering (unless she had already decided on it, even without meeting us).