Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

[vormela]

I felt bludgeoned by the theme and I have to wonder how much of that was pushed due to covid.

In the speculation thread I was wondering if the story would change to reflect the pandemic. I thought that they would bring back some of the characters we thought were "dead-dead" to give them a proper sendoff and also give us time with main characters (the monologues and heart-to-hearts).

I wonder if they toned down the "end of the world" storyline. Probably also due to quarterly earnings and the second wind FFXIV has had lately! It felt like from Zone 5 onward that the pandemic and second wind changed things. And I think it may have added to the harsh reality of Zone 3. The characters were all so believable.

[Loggos]

In the speculation thread I was wondering if the story would change to reflect the pandemic. I thought that they would bring back some of the characters we thought were "dead-dead" to give them a proper sendoff and also give us time with main characters (the monologues and heart-to-hearts).

I wonder if they toned down the "end of the world" storyline. Probably also due to quarterly earnings and the second wind FFXIV has had lately! It felt like from Zone 5 onward that the pandemic and second wind changed things. And I think it may have added to the harsh reality of Zone 3. The characters were all so believable.

(I know this has probably nothing to do with the pandemic but

the fact that the inhabitants of the last zone are called Omicron (I know the variant is too new to have affected EW), that one of the mobs is called Delta (yes, I know, there's also alpha, beta and chi) and that one of the enemies literally looks like the stereotypical depiction of the covid virus felt kinda surreal. xD )

[yajnaji]

(I know this has probably nothing to do with the pandemic but

the fact that the inhabitants of the last zone are called Omicron (I know the variant is too new to have affected EW), that one of the mobs is called Delta (yes, I know, there's also alpha, beta and chi) and that one of the enemies literally looks like the stereotypical depiction of the covid virus felt kinda surreal. xD )

The Omicrons are in the game since Omega was first mentioned (in ARR), even the omega DRG sets are named Omicron.

[Slatersev]

Assume full MSQ spoilers. 3/3



Scions:

Contrast this with the Scion's plot armor, likely why I have to keep watching my Ancient friends die because the writers/devs won't touch the protagonists. The reason they keep having to bring up losses of characters introduced in ARR is because no major character on the side of the protagonists has died since HW. Having our group discuss overcoming despair when comparatively they've lost the least of any of the peoples we help or fight against rang hollow. The only exceptions are G'raha and Estinien. It's not that I wanted Scions to die (though I'd easily trade over half of them for Emet and Hythlodaeus), but they always win and without having to incur much in the way of costs. Maybe this contributes to why I feel like the Ancients have a more compelling story and characters. As a comment on Reddit said, "I adore their story more than our story."

That's not true.

Minfillia didn't really die till near the end of Shadowbringers. Even when they flashback to her end its the scene where she talks to Ryne before passing on. Her presence is an absolutely massive part of ShB

And frankly while it was still technically a HW patch, the HW plotline was done by the time

Papalymo died, his death is the starting point of Stormblood far more then it is anything HW.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Snip

To both you and the person above you.

Yes 1000%. You both made such amazing points and all of the problems you both addressed are reasons i just…can’t take this expansion or really this game seriously anymore. The constant plot armor of the protags is ridiculous and the whole venat thing was just…bad writing plain and simple, especially with them forcing the benevolence thing. It’s so upsetting too because the thavnair and garlemald plots are so amazing but once you get to the moon the story just takes a major nose dive, letting up a little bit with the second thavnair arc but then back to nose diving. It’s so sad.

[RyuDragnier]

My thoughts on the story? Rather than go bit by bit, I'm going to hit it with my overall thoughts. This may be the best written the game has ever been. I've laughed, cried, smiled, and felt more emotion this entire expansion than I've ever felt in the game. I have not seen many things, if any, in the expansion that were nonsensical or not well foreshadowed ahead of time. So much more lore given to us here than we've ever had before. Ishikawa and the whole writing team outdid themselves this time, and I daresay it may be hard for the game to ever hit this high note again in storytelling.

[MikkoAkure]

I’ve read through the thread and wonder if some of us have been playing the same game this whole time.

There was no way after 11 years of the game that they were going to have a twist where Hydaelyn is malevolent. That would cheapen a lot of the game and a lot of what we’ve done for a weak payoff. It was apparent things were going to end this way when SE responded in an interview to say that we only had one side of the story.

The plot armor for the Scions is annoying but expected, since they’ve had plot armor since the beginning and Y’shtola herself has been in mortal peril at least 5 times off the top of my head (tsunami in 1.0, Flow in ARR, stabbed in SB, Flow 2 in ShB, and Meteion’d in EW). I didn’t expect any prior established characters to die who were in the Trust system or in existing branching quest lines.

The game has always been fairly saccharine with a message about love and friendship. Even the edgy DRK turns out to be a knight who uses the power of love. There are dark moments for sure, but none of expansions end on one, least of all the whole game’s storyline.

So overall I’m confused why the outcome comes to a surprise to some. Were people seriously expecting an end where the Ascians were right all along and half of the party is dead?

Most of my thoughts on the expansion have already been mentioned here by others. The writing seems to have been inconsistent compared to ShB, with wild changes to our understanding of existing lore with no explanation. Other times, it felt like the writers were casually going through a list of bullet points they have for unfinished plot threads and just throwing the solutions at us out of nowhere and then moving on quickly by the end.

Then specifically with the ending:

I felt like the Scions were in no danger at all because they beat us over the head with the foreshadowing for Azem’s Crystal and the teleporter as if to keep making triply sure we wouldn’t forget about those plot devices.

Overall I would rate it below ShB, which felt consistent and focused throughout and made me cry at the end. None of which EW did. I would rank it above or equal to HW, and definitely above ARR and SB, the saving grace being:

Impromptu “road trip” with my friends from 12,000 years ago being one of my highlights for the game as a whole, and the fact that I felt like while inconsistent and sometimes lost, the game at least didn’t bungle the end.

[Bhearil]

I’ve read through the thread and wonder if some of us have been playing the same game this whole time.

There was no way after 11 years of the game that they were going to have a twist where Hydaelyn is malevolent. That would cheapen a lot of the game and a lot of what we’ve done for a weak payoff. It was apparent things were going to end this way when SE responded in an interview to say that we only had one side of the story.

The plot armor for the Scions is annoying but expected, since they’ve had plot armor since the beginning and Y’shtola herself has been in mortal peril at least 5 times off the top of my head (tsunami in 1.0, Flow in ARR, stabbed in SB, Flow 2 in ShB, and Meteion’d in EW). I didn’t expect any prior established characters to die who were in the Trust system or in existing branching quest lines.

The game has always been fairly saccharine with a message about love and friendship. Even the edgy DRK turns out to be a knight who uses the power of love. There are dark moments for sure, but none of expansions end on one, least of all the whole game’s storyline.

So overall I’m confused why the outcome comes to a surprise to some. Were people seriously expecting an end where the Ascians were right all along and half of the party is dead?

Most of my thoughts on the expansion have already been mentioned here by others. The writing seems to have been inconsistent compared to ShB, with wild changes to our understanding of existing lore with no explanation. Other times, it felt like the writers were casually going through a list of bullet points they have for unfinished plot threads and just throwing the solutions at us out of nowhere and then moving on quickly by the end.

Then specifically with the ending:

I felt like the Scions were in no danger at all because they beat us over the head with the foreshadowing for Azem’s Crystal and the teleporter as if to keep making triply sure we wouldn’t forget about those plot devices.

Overall I would rate it below ShB, which felt consistent and focused throughout and made me cry at the end. None of which EW did. I would rank it above or equal to HW, and definitely above ARR and SB, the saving grace being:

Impromptu “road trip” with my friends from 12,000 years ago being one of my highlights for the game as a whole, and the fact that I felt like while inconsistent and sometimes lost, the game at least didn’t bungle the end.

I completely agree, the story even if still great feels at times disjointed and a step down from ShB. While ShB keep the quality high during the entire expansion here you see lows and ups making certain points awesome and others a real slog.

Its still a worthy finale but could be done better considering how good was ShB

[PangTong]

I’ve read through the thread and wonder if some of us have been playing the same game this whole time.

Regarding that

Not making Hydaelyn evil is one thing the writers completely deserve commendation for. Over the years I've had to deal with so many people who were so convinced that twist was coming that it seemed like they were actually hoping for that most shallow and meaningless of subversions. "The good guy was the bad guy all along". It would have undermined the story so badly if it truly ended up being that simple. Imagine how awful the story would have ended up being if it was really just, the Ascians were right all along, Zodiark is a good guy and Hydaelyn has been deceiving you the whole time. Imagine if that's what we got instead of Shadowbringers.

In the end Hydaelyn is neither good nor evil, which is perfect. How you see her ends up coming down to whether you agree with her reasoning. Endwalker is far from the perfect ending in many respects but on that point at least I'm glad it played out the way it did

[Loggos]

I’ve read through the thread and wonder if some of us have been playing the same game this whole time.

There was no way after 11 years of the game that they were going to have a twist where Hydaelyn is malevolent. That would cheapen a lot of the game and a lot of what we’ve done for a weak payoff. It was apparent things were going to end this way when SE responded in an interview to say that we only had one side of the story.

Regarding that

Not making Hydaelyn evil is one thing the writers completely deserve commendation for. Over the years I've had to deal with so many people who were so convinced that twist was coming that it seemed like they were actually hoping for that most shallow and meaningless of subversions. "The good guy was the bad guy all along". It would have undermined the story so badly if it truly ended up being that simple. Imagine how awful the story would have ended up being if it was really just, the Ascians were right all along, Zodiark is a good guy and Hydaelyn has been deceiving you the whole time. Imagine if that's what we got instead of Shadowbringers.

In the end Hydaelyn is neither good nor evil, which is perfect. How you see her ends up coming down to whether you agree with her reasoning. Endwalker is far from the perfect ending in many respects but on that point at least I'm glad it played out the way it did

I'm also very glad that

Hydaelin didn't turn out to be the evil manipulater after all.

But I think the reason why many players felt that the story could take that turn might have been because Shadowbringers did shift the tone quite a lot.
For the first time we had a story with "more shades of grey", if you will. It also felt a lot darker to me.
Whereas ARR and Stormblood felt kind of colourful, over-idealistic and ultimately more like "clichéed optimistic fantasy" (not saying this is a bad thing - just trying to put it into words) and Heavensward was sad, more serious but not, for the lack of a better word, "bizarre", Shadowbringers - in a good sense - felt a lot darker and gritter, with some storytelling elements almost borrowing from horror genres (e.g., when I saw Tesleen's tranformation I was positively shocked because that kind of depiction felt quite unprecedented in FF14).
In ARR, HW and SB an evil Hydaelin would not have made sense thematically. But within Shadowbringers it suddenly felt like it actually might. And because people assumed they would continue to tell the story as they did in ShB they probably expected the same kind of "shades of grey" and perhaps also the same kind of darkness/grittiness in EW. (I would even argue we did get the latter. The HR Giga inspired Telophoroi towers that made you think a xenomorph is waiting behind the next corner, some of Meteion's "creepy" scenes or people turning into monsters (and stomping their own children) really embodied that spirit.)