Predict the endwalker healing meta!

[Risvertasashi]

I'd like to try something.

Rules (That are more like guidelines):

1. Try to keep your post under 200 words
2. Try to focus more on what you think it will be and why, rather than arguing with other posters - the idea is to collect different viewpoints, and well, there's already tons and tons of arguing over the theorycrafting in the healer forums. This isn't a moratorium on all discussion, however.
3. For best results, share your thoughts before reading other replies.

And consider this disclaimer to apply to all posts: These are based on the dev build which may change before release.

Suggested format:
I think the meta will be:
My reasoning:
Factors that might subvert my prediction:

[ty_taurus]

I think the meta will be: AST/SCH, AST/SGE, or SCH/SGE

My reasoning: WHM will likely still be a very popular job across the game, but it seems to offer no clear advantages over any of the other healers when it comes to raiding. SCH is memed on, but still has very powerful tools like Chain Stratagem, Sacred Soil, and Recitation. SGE has even more effective OGCD healing, and Zoe could be game-changing for prog. AST is looking very powerful, but both SCH and SGE have so many very powerful OGCD heals on short cooldowns that they could just overwhelm the Pure Healers in their ability to heal and maintain DPS updtime, though AST is no slouch either. I see no clear advantage to the "Pure Healer" archetype based on what we've seen and while barriers don't overlap, all it takes is an ounce of communication to establish who will be mainly applying barriers for which mechanics between SCH and SGE.

Factors that might subvert my prediction: Basically the unknowns. We don't know what potencies are changing, if any, and we also don't know what upcoming raid content will look like. EW does seem to have an excessive amount of damage reduction, barriers, and healing not only getting added to the healers, but like half the other jobs as well. WAR's getting self-healing, DRK has more team utility, there will be more charges for GOCD barriers, Dancer is getting a regen and a barrier, Summoner's getting a heal on top of Phoenix's passive regen, RDM is getting more utility... If this wasn't FFXIV, anyone would immediately make the connection that damage is about to spike, but we've been down a similar road before, and look where we ended up. Only time will tell.

[Halfgeeek]

I think the meta will be: AST/SCH, AST/SGE, or SCH/SGE

Agreed.

AST will be the clear favorite among players who like some complexity with their healers. Their revamp card system is smoother, and new EW skills requires thought, pre-planning to use, but its very powerful.

SGE will be the meme aesthetic healer, but the fad will quickly die down as people realize its basically a SCH clone with an identity crisis.

Meanwhile, SCH is where the true power resides. Deploy shorter cooldown, instant effect, and Adlo being 180% shield combines well with Recitation for huge fat crit shields on everyone! (We all know the real reason though: everyone wants Chain Strat for their own dps buff...)

[ty_taurus]

Agreed.

AST will be the clear favorite among players who like some complexity with their healers. Their revamp card system is smoother, and new EW skills requires thought, pre-planning to use, but its very powerful.

SGE will be the meme aesthetic healer, but the fad will quickly die down as people realize its basically a SCH clone with an identity crisis.

Meanwhile, SCH is where the true power resides. Deploy shorter cooldown, instant effect, and Adlo being 180% shield combines well with Recitation for huge fat crit shields on everyone! (We all know the real reason though: everyone wants Chain Strat for their own dps buff...)

I don't really agree with SGE being a SCH clone. I think there is a bit of overlap, but SGE actually seems to have better control and better potencies on a lot of those similar actions. In regards to Adder's Gall, I'd say SCH's Aetherflow is better, but I'd say the their only other advantage really is Chain Stratagem. It's hard to say really, but it is a number's game at the end of the day. I also think Zoe has the potential to blow Critlo out of the water since it's just doubling the healing value, meaning that also affects the barrier and can still crit on top of that. When we're talking about raid prog, a doubly potent E. Prognosis is bound to crit on at least a couple allies which is going to offer massive shielding. Of course, as I mentioned, we could also see SCH/SGE comps. With proper communication, you could also alternate between who's using Recitation/Zoe barriers for an even easier time in prog potentially. It's not like pure healers offer something unique and important that barrier healers don't have. AST is still a powerhouse of course, but we could see them on more even footing.

[Risvertasashi]

Mine then:

I think the meta will be: AST+SGE

My reasoning: I think players will also go into endwalker thinking "We need a buffer and a pure DPSer" rather than just "We need a pure healer and shield healer." From this standpoint, it will be white mage competing with sage, and then astrologian competing with scholar. To satisfy this while maintaining heal compatibility, our options are "AST+SGE" and "WHM+SCH."

So, I think it we'll see the best results pairing a buffer and a pure DPSer, but I also think the latter combination isn't going to be even close to competitive. It basically comes down to "pick the weaker/stonger pure DPSer" and "pick the weaker/stronger buffer", and "strong buffer + strong pure DPSer" seems like the winning combo to me.

Factors that might subvert my prediction: If AST buffs end up significantly weaker than expected, or chain strat ends up significantly stronger than expected, since I think DPS contributions will be the most important in determining the meta. It's also possible healing will be less equal than I expect, so maybe that will be a factor over DPS (But I think WHM still won't do well there due to MP management issues).

[inhaledcorn]

SGE/SCH

WHM got hit overhard with the nerf bat on MP economy, and AST's damage output is going to be too inconsistent for the upper echelons of players. SCH, while clunky, does function and still has access to CriloDeploy, and SGE has a lot of powerful healing tools on top of having Phlegma to use within burst windows.

[Mortex]

I would say early when crit isn’t that strong it’s gonna be sage + astro on healer and with crit getting stronger sch/astro.

Tanks I think will always be war as main and pld/gnb as a off tank, war alone has insane self sustain and still a good group shield and with gnb or pld you get even more self sustain making it so you never need to heal the main tank.

Meeles I think can be swapped anyway you like but too even put more emphasis on the healing comp I would take reaper and monk. Mantra has 90 seconds cd and buffs all healing and with reapers 30 seconds cd hot barrier with 500 potency it gives ogcd healing for all situations.

Dancer as physical range for its hot on improv and even unbuffed the shield he can give the party is 5 % health and also curing walz.

Caster could either be Smn or red mage. But I think when you take the jobs I mentioned above you have enough cds to survive big one shot aoes and feint will also reduce magic dmg by 5 % so I rather take smn because new devotion has 2 minutes cd now down from 3 and also Phoenix every 2 mins is a free hot on the party and a stronger excog on the tank.


With this group setup as (any) healer you never should have to be forced to gcd heal in any fight giving both healers more time too maximizing dmg uptime more effective and group utility is also pretty decent

[Absurdity]

Tanks I think will always be war as main and pld/gnb as a off tank, war alone has insane self sustain and still a good group shield and with gnb or pld you get even more self sustain making it so you never need to heal the main tank.

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with PLD as "main" and GnB as "off" tank, although this will heavily depend on their dps output. PLD may not have any selfheal on it's 1-2-3 combo but you get a free 1600 potency heal every 60 seconds from your 4x Holy Spirit (which may or may not also allow you to proc Divine Veil by yourself now), Holy Shelltron seems like an incredible mitigation tool with it's ~30% and 1000 potency regen, while GnB has the superior support tool in Heart of Corundum (roughly 30% mitigation on anyone you cast it on + a mini excog of roughly 900 potency + Brutal Shell barrier + no resource cost VS Intervention's ~20% unbuffed + the 1000 potency regen and 50 gauge cost) and 2 stacks of Aurora that they can put on the Paladin.


As for healers, as boring as SCH is to play it will probably still take the spot together with AST, simply due to their strong rdps contributions and more than adequate healing kits.

[ForteNightshade]

Tanks I think will always be war as main and pld/gnb as a off tank, war alone has insane self sustain and still a good group shield and with gnb or pld you get even more self sustain making it so you never need to heal the main tank.

WAR will be a strong prog option but unless its self-sustain directly results in more DPS output for the healers, it'll likely fall off. The biggest issue WAR has getting into the meta nowadays is, ironically, IR not being like Delirium. The guaranteed Crit and Direct Hits completely nullify Battle Voice/Litany and Chain. This will only be worse since Litany/Voice now always lineup with IR. If DRG fights its way back into the meta and SCH beats out SGE, WAR won't have any place.

My guess is GNB/PLD will dominate, with DRK getting some love despite its present meme status. WAR's place is entirely dependent on which comp comes out ahead and if Bloodwhetting can carry it.

As for the Healers. Despite all the memes, Chain Stratagem will keep SCH alive unless they utterly gut its DPS. I do think SGE has the raw potency to make it competitive but it'll be more like DRK in the current meta: an option but not the preferred pick. AST looks to be a near guaranteed shoe in with how insane some of its options are. WHM, on the other hand, just doesn't seem like it has a chance at all even sniffing the meta scene. Not to say it won't be viable because every job will be. Alas, it just seems to have taken two steps back with a severe nerf to its MP economy and how janky Lilybell is.

AST/SCH > AST/SGE with a sleeper hit being SCH/SGE

[Mortex]

I don't really agree with SGE being a SCH clone. I think there is a bit of overlap, but SGE actually seems to have better control and better potencies on a lot of those similar actions. In regards to Adder's Gall, I'd say SCH's Aetherflow is better, but I'd say the their only other advantage really is Chain Stratagem. It's hard to say really, but it is a number's game at the end of the day. I also think Zoe has the potential to blow Critlo out of the water since it's just doubling the healing value, meaning that also affects the barrier and can still crit on top of that. When we're talking about raid prog, a doubly potent E. Prognosis is bound to crit on at least a couple allies which is going to offer massive shielding. Of course, as I mentioned, we could also see SCH/SGE comps. With proper communication, you could also alternate between who's using Recitation/Zoe barriers for an even easier time in prog potentially. It's not like pure healers offer something unique and important that barrier healers don't have. AST is still a powerhouse of course, but we could see them on more even footing.

It does depend ,Zoe gives you a easy too set up spreadlo with 2 buttons but it is a bit luck depending if you crit or not with it, potency wise it is always stronger then sch spreadlo but you can force the sch adlo too be a crit adlo all the time, it’s just annoying to set up as always.

But sge also has the best bubble in the game that you actually can use for all movement situations we’re in the astro or sch case you have too stand in it. That ability in lions rampart or even in the shiva mechanic would actually super strong.