Monk Positionals 6.0

**meowmaou** · 12-11-2021 04:50 PM

Started playing MNK again after going through MSQ with NIN. It does a few things right that I didn't give it credit for. I think the new PB is cool, I like getting formless fist after it, though I would like it more if-
- Cooldown was a bit faster so I can use it more often
- Blitz was oGCD

Now, positionals being removed still bugs me because of job identity (I'm still doing them out of habit so I'm probably having more fun than I "should" be) and so does losing oGCDs because of the loss of speed and quick thinking. I preferred shoulder tackle, but if we're stuck with this new thing then I would really prefer if it just worked like En Avant if you weren't targeting anything. In a lot of situations where I WOULD dash to a party member, I don't really have time to target them on gamepad. I also just think it's pretty insulting to take oGCDs we had previously and now make us work for them and turn them into GCDs. But I only started playing this game at ShB and the impression I get is that that kinda bullshit happens a lot.

In terms of other positives, I love Shadow of the Destroyer so, so much. Great animation, very weighty, and fun to spam under PB and get a shitton of crits. Probably my favorite new thing on the job.

Also why does Enhanced Thunderclap exist? Why do I need 3 stocks of such a rarely used skill that doesn't do any damage at all? If it were me I'd make the trait make it do damage on top of giving you the extra stock.

**VentVanitas** · 12-11-2021 04:59 PM

Seeing a lot of suggestions to make Blitz attacks oGCDs lately in this thread and I fail to see what that would achieve.

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I really don't think that we need a rework, we already got one and the base is good.
It just needs some small changes.

This, 6.0 MNK is frustrating to me because it's almost good, but isn't quite there yet. They solved our major issue with mobility by giving us a versatile damage-less gapcloser (which is very responsive and snappy), and they gave us some mix up to the standard MNK rotation with the introduction of Blitz. It's far from the best attempt at it, but I don't think it's worth losing what was given.

**meowmaou** · 12-11-2021 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Seeing a lot of suggestions to make Blitz attacks oGCDs lately in this thread and I fail to see what that would achieve.

Compensating for the speed we've lost in EW. Of course I'd also be happy with new oGCDs or a better chakra system that lets me use those oGCDs more often.

**Shurrikhan** · 12-11-2021 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by meowmaou

Compensating for the speed we've lost in EW. Of course I'd also be happy with new oGCDs or a better chakra system that lets me use those oGCDs more often.

We've still plenty of speed to make use of the strings around Blitz windows, though? We're at just enough speed to have the choice of either getting in an extra BS/DK/SotD and dropping Disciplined Fist briefly before FPF/Twin or skipping it for Twin/FPF. I don't see why that choice should be an 'annoyance' we need get rid of.

And if you, just personally, really hate it, you can get enough SkS to remove that point of decision; no need to remove it from everyone or ensure no one can actually see their Blitz animations (let alone that they'd be the most reasonable target to weaken to compensate for no longer taking a GCD's uptime).

**meowmaou** · 12-11-2021 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

We've still plenty of speed to make use of the strings around Blitz windows, though? We're at just enough speed to have the choice of either getting in an extra BS/DK/SotD and dropping Disciplined Fist briefly before FPF/Twin or skipping it for Twin/FPF. I don't see why that choice should be an 'annoyance' we need get rid of.

And if you, just personally, really hate it, you can get enough SkS to remove that point of decision; no need to remove it from everyone or ensure no one can actually see their Blitz animations (let alone that they'd be the most reasonable target to weaken to compensate for no longer taking a GCD's uptime).

Well, we lost 3 offensive oGCDs. That's a speed drop, and I'd like something to make up for it. It's exacerbated by not having to move as much with the positionals removed. Maybe I should have said APM instead. It doesn't have to be the blitz that becomes oGCDs, I just want more APM. I care more about that than seeing all of an animation if it DID have to be blitz, but of course it doesn't have to be.

**Shurrikhan** · 12-11-2021 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by meowmaou

Well, we lost 3 offensive oGCDs. That's a speed drop, and I'd like something to make up for it. It's exacerbated by not having to move as much with the positionals removed. Maybe I should have said APM instead. It doesn't have to be the blitz that becomes oGCDs, I just want more APM. I care more about that than seeing all of an animation if it DID have to be blitz, but of course it doesn't have to be.

If we're talking speed, that's a mere matter of APM. At 30s CDs, TK, EF, and SC each gave 2, so that totals to 6 apm lost -- significant, but recoverable. That's something that can be made up for via Chakra intake (or, ofc, by returning any of said oGCDs). 30 more Chakra per minute would produce an identical effect. We're probably between a third and half way to that already, in an average minute, due to the DM / BrH changes. The speed can easily be tuned, such as even by including periodic damage (AAs, Demo) as possible Chakra contributors or, though less effective, by swapping Brotherhood from guaranteeing Chakra gen to simply adding a further Chakra per weaponskill atop whatever would have normally have been given. Taking Blitz off the GCD would provide 1.33 extra apm, but would ultimately just feel like button swapping. Which brings us to the next possibility...

But if by "speed" you actually mean "sense of urgency induced by cognitive load", then that just means it need more of any given kind of mechanic affecting optimizable periods (breadth) or more to do within any of those mechanics (depth). Decisions like the above add to that, however, not subtract. By simply replacing a Blitz GCD with a regular GCD, as per your suggestion to take Blitz off the GCD, you'd have little change to speed, but you would have reduced cognitive load and thus the sense of urgency at particular moments per minute, all at the cost of being able to see our Blitz animations if one need weave anything else into the GCD's gap.

**Miralyth** · 12-12-2021 04:30 PM

As a Monk main since early Shadowbringers, and having played it quite a bit throughout Stormblood, I don't like positionals and I'm glad they're mostly gone. They've been on auto-pilot for me for a long time and I never find them "fun," I only feel irritated by them when a boss suddenly turns to use a mechanic, a tank turns the boss randomly, or there's an exceptionally long mechanic that denies access to flank/rear and I don't have access to TN due to another mechanic etc. I understand that some people find them challenging (or simply like them), but for me, they're just an occasional annoyance beyond my control.

Also, some of the posts in this thread are really toxic toward other players; it's okay to like something, but it's not okay to attack other people for not liking the same thing.

**Shurrikhan** · 12-12-2021 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Miralyth

I don't like positionals and I'm glad they're mostly gone. They've been on auto-pilot for me for a long time and I never find them "fun," I only feel irritated by them when a boss suddenly turns to use a mechanic, a tank turns the boss randomly, or there's an exceptionally long mechanic that denies access to flank/rear and I don't have access to TN due to another mechanic etc. I understand that some people find them challenging (or simply like them), but for me, they're just an occasional annoyance beyond my control.

Tbf, I suspect even those who enjoy them on the whole are still annoyed by losses outside of their control. Some manner or other of leniency mechanisms, such as via an unintrusive trait, have been suggested since ARR for that very reason.

**Miralyth** · 12-13-2021 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Tbf, I suspect even those who enjoy them on the whole are still annoyed by losses outside of their control. Some manner or other of leniency mechanisms, such as via an unintrusive trait, have been suggested since ARR for that very reason.

I'm not entirely sure what you have in mind with leniency mechanisms. I think the current solution to leniency is TN, but I'm sure we all know how frustrating that can be during a busy oGCD window (not that we have as many of those anymore), or when charges simply run out due to a mechanic being extremely long or back-to-back with another anti-melee mechanic. If you mean a softer punish for potency/crit/etc. loss, I'm not sure this would satisfy a lot of people; I can't speak for others, but I know that it's the loss of any damage at all that annoys me with positionals.

Aside from the annoying bit of positionals, I simply don't enjoy the mechanic. I don't hate it, but if I had to choose, I think I'd rather go without altogether. It's that additional layer of being annoyed by a forced miss that elevates positionals to strongly disliked for me, as opposed to just being something I'm not really interested in.

**Shurrikhan** · 12-13-2021 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Miralyth

I'm not entirely sure what you have in mind with leniency mechanisms.

A simple spitball:

Fluid Strikes (Trait) - Every third flank or rear attack you land from the correct position generates a charge of Fluid Strikes, which are consumed to cause your next would-be missed flank or rear attack to deal damage as if it hit from the correct position. You can hold up to three charges of Fluid Strikes.

Simple. Intuitive. Not invasive. Actually deals with random boss spins and tank shenanigans.

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