Multiverse Final Fantasy MMORPG (What could have been)

[Orophin]

They should just keep giving subtle nods to previous games like they have been so far. "What's your name? Sefiross? XxxSephirothxxX?" Stuff like that. Unless a game is a direct sequel, (which I haven't been too crazy about the ones they've made) I don't feel they should inject past characters into a brand new titled game. Dissidea was a bit different altogether, but seeing physical manifestations of previous characters in this game would kind of ruin it for me. This game should stand apart from the others.

[Onidemon]

I was talking to my cousin who grew up playing RPG's with me and we were discussing how Square was before Enix merger and how the games have changed. What inspired during that conversation was a rather neat idea.

Its hard to argue that Square Enix has made a well conceived Final Fantasy title since Final Fantasy X (FFX). It feels as though they have lost their way. (This is not including Final Fantasy XI "FFXI") I would even argue that the only reason why Square Enix has been so successful with titles post FFX is through the weight that carries with the Final Fantasy title. Recently major websites have stated that Japanese companies are loosing their way, that Final Fantasy should die off, and even producers from Square Enix have been quoted saying that fans need to give up on remakes that would obviously make the company tons of money.


When considering the most famous JPRG's of all time you will always run into the more popular Final Fantasy titles such as FFIV,FFVI,FFVII,FFVIII,FFX. So the question is what if Square would have put all these titles together to form a Final Fantasy MMORG of epic proportions?

Familar Faces and Races, Epic villains we have all come to love, races that fans of the series were begging to be able to play again, Epic stories that could be elaborated, pre established geography.

Imagine yourself starting in Baron castle and meeting Kain Highwind and Cecil, or Going to Arieths flower shop or Tifas 7th heaven, watching blitz ball in Zanarkand. Fighting Kefka, Sephiroth, Garland, Kuja, Hojo. Fighting all the most epic hidden bosses such as Osma, Emerald and Ruby Weapons, scaling the Mage tower. Why couldn't this have transpired we may have had the MMORPG that had style, familiarity, and the WoW killer of the century.

I came from a backround that was Capcom in a fighting game scene that allowed the players to be heard. So if you are at all interested in seeing this come to fruition no matter how improbable it seems. (I get the logistics that FFXIV just came out) Maybe we can see something like this in the future. So I encourage you all to post your thoughts and opinions both pro and con and let your voices be heard. If people are adamant enough anything is possible.

I'm all for that idea and i even suggested it before. Problem is that most pple here never played the other FF games. Most only played XI and if you suggest taking something from other FF games they say it's wrong. But if you suggest gear swapping or wtv we had in XI then it's a blessing and that it should be done because they are both from the same company.... as if XI was the only FF title for square..... see the pattern here?

[Firon]

ffix was a HUGE step back in FF quality.
its funny how even the older final fantasy titles have better art than ffix's crap. they are hideously deformed. the proportions are all wrong on most people... but on some not. consistency, can I have it?

Um... you do know FF9 was a throwback to old FF's ...... the art everything >.>

[DNO]

I'm all for that idea and i even suggested it before. Problem is that most pple here never played the other FF games. Most only played XI and if you suggest taking something from other FF games they say it's wrong. But if you suggest gear swapping or wtv we had in XI then it's a blessing and that it should be done because they are both from the same company.... as if XI was the only FF title for square..... see the pattern here?

hahah lol good post

[DNO]

They should just keep giving subtle nods to previous games like they have been so far. "What's your name? Sefiross? XxxSephirothxxX?" Stuff like that. Unless a game is a direct sequel, (which I haven't been too crazy about the ones they've made) I don't feel they should inject past characters into a brand new titled game. Dissidea was a bit different altogether, but seeing physical manifestations of previous characters in this game would kind of ruin it for me. This game should stand apart from the others.

Did you play kingdom hearts?

[Lux_Rayna]

So I encourage you all to post your thoughts and opinions both pro and con and let your voices be heard. If people are adamant enough anything is possible.

This is a load of horse crap. Whenever ppl say this, they never really mean it. Generally, this is the translation: "My idea is so awesome no one can possibly disagree with me, so I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts telling me how awesome the idea is, and ppl who disagree are obviously stupid, poorly educated, can't see the vision, or lack creativity." After reading through the thread, I'm pretty convinced the translation is accurate. You are so hyped up on your own idea, so convinced of its greatness, that you are unable to comprehend the possibility that it is not a good idea at all. Really, why bother asking for opinions when you don't want them. The only thing you want is others to job you in order to make you feel more awesome in coming up with the idea. These types of threads I like to call "self-validation" threads. They are threads designed to get others to agree with them, so that the OP can elevate his sense of self-worth and self-importance. Generally the OP takes a stance on a topic which he feels will garner the most agreement. In other words, he picks a bandwagon he thinks a lot of ppl will jump on. If it is an "original" idea (read: creating a new bandwagon) then it increases the risk of disagreement, but also increases the reward due to its originality. Here we have it, a self-validation thread gone horribly horribly wrong. It was a good try though.


Your idea is bad, at least for MMORPGs. For one, its not even an original idea. Crossovers have existed for decades, in all parts of media/art/entertainment. Everything from All-stars games, to spin-offs, to music mashups, to collaborations, all represent the same idea: bring a lot of popular things together into one product. I'm almost certain this idea gets tossed out with every product a franchise has ever though of creating. Its a basic idea, easy fanservice, and requires the least amount of effort. You can copy/paste designs, with a little updating/consolidation, re-use certain animations, spin-off existing storylines, all while raking in tons of money because nostalgia will cause ppl to buy just about anything. And in most cases thats all that needs to happen, SE could care less if you burn it 5 days later..they've already locked in profits from your purchase. When it comes to MMORPGs though, SE can't afford you to quit playing...they need you to keep paying for the product. Quite frankly, nostalgia only lasts but so long before an individual recognizes the product for what it is: empty, uninspired, blatant fanservice. At that point you lose all will to play, because there really isn't anything there.


Let me explain a few flaws..

1) Lack of a Persistent Universe: The final fantasy series does not have a persistent universe. This is the biggest roadblock. Because it lacks a persistent universe, there is no thread connecting the various games to each other. None at all. This means a thread will have to be *forced* into the plot in order to connect Midgar to Balamb Garden to Luca. Due to the sheer difference in universes, technologies, clothing styles, city design, etc...anything you do to connect them will be very obviously forced. And there is nothing more disconcerting, and distasteful, in a storyline than a forced universe. A universe should feel natural, not contrived. A contrived universe is an ever-present reminder to the gamer that they are playing a game and not participating in a pseudo-reality. It breaks the fourth wall and leaves it in pieces.

2) Lack of a coherent or original storyline: Related to the first problem is the 2nd problem, the storyline. There is really no good way to go about it, because there is no common denominator. It always boils down to some arbitrary reason worlds are forced together, usually due to some time-space anomaly. Sonic Generations, Kingdom Hearts, (insert other game here), they all use the same storyline with a different villain. Its old. Its shallow. Its not even creative. It can't be, because there just isn't any other logical rationalization for mashing a bunch of worlds together that existed in separate universes. Efforts to be creative usually end up as incoherent and convoluted, precisely because the topic (time-space anomalies) is not something easily understood even by the most accomplished of physicists. Now you're asking everyday gamers to understand it? Lol.

3) Lack of consistency: I'll use kingdom hearts as a perfect example of this point. For those of us who have played through the final fantasy series, we know how powerful some of the characters are. If Cloud shows up in my FFXIV, there is no reason why he can't go destroy (insert primal, villain, army here)...or why (insert black mage here) doesn't just drop a meteor wherever the hell he/she pleases. These crossovers have horrible consistency when it comes to power levels, precisely because they were originally balanced for single player games in isolated universes. Take Kingdom Hearts. Explain to me how a kid who's been swinging an oversized key for less than a year is able to handle both Cloud and Squall in the Coliseum. There's no way. Squall could one-shot him with any given limit break, and Cloud could lay him out a few times over. Tell me how a few swings from a key can put Squall down, when Squall can tank giant explosions from ultima weapon? You may think this is petty, but these inconsistencies can make die-hard fans of certain characters nerd-rage like you wouldn't believe. Its stupid for a boy who's balls have yet to drop, who hasn't known war, and has yet to see puberty, can fight two veterans who saved their respective planets on equal ground. Just. A. Joke. Explaining this in a universe also requires contrived reasons, further destroying the mind's ability to suspend disbelief.


All in all its a bad idea. I could go on, but it just doesn't work for MMORPGs. It can work for single player games, sure, as they dont need to be fun very long. But for a game you want ppl to pay for month after month? Just no. Nostalgia isn't that powerful.

[bobbygunz]

Some people shouldn't be let anywhere near art.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

This is a load of horse crap. Whenever ppl say this, they never really mean it. Generally, this is the translation: "My idea is so awesome no one can possibly disagree with me, so I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts telling me how awesome the idea is, and ppl who disagree are obviously stupid, poorly educated, can't see the vision, or lack creativity." After reading through the thread, I'm pretty convinced the translation is accurate. You are so hyped up on your own idea, so convinced of its greatness, that you are unable to comprehend the possibility that it is not a good idea at all. Really, why bother asking for opinions when you don't want them. The only thing you want is others to job you in order to make you feel more awesome in coming up with the idea. These types of threads I like to call "self-validation" threads. They are threads designed to get others to agree with them, so that the OP can elevate his sense of self-worth and self-importance. Generally the OP takes a stance on a topic which he feels will garner the most agreement. In other words, he picks a bandwagon he thinks a lot of ppl will jump on. If it is an "original" idea (read: creating a new bandwagon) then it increases the risk of disagreement, but also increases the reward due to its originality. Here we have it, a self-validation thread gone horribly horribly wrong. It was a good try though.


Your idea is bad, at least for MMORPGs. For one, its not even an original idea. Crossovers have existed for decades, in all parts of media/art/entertainment. Everything from All-stars games, to spin-offs, to music mashups, to collaborations, all represent the same idea: bring a lot of popular things together into one product. I'm almost certain this idea gets tossed out with every product a franchise has ever though of creating. Its a basic idea, easy fanservice, and requires the least amount of effort. You can copy/paste designs, with a little updating/consolidation, re-use certain animations, spin-off existing storylines, all while raking in tons of money because nostalgia will cause ppl to buy just about anything. And in most cases thats all that needs to happen, SE could care less if you burn it 5 days later..they've already locked in profits from your purchase. When it comes to MMORPGs though, SE can't afford you to quit playing...they need you to keep paying for the product. Quite frankly, nostalgia only lasts but so long before an individual recognizes the product for what it is: empty, uninspired, blatant fanservice. At that point you lose all will to play, because there really isn't anything there.


Let me explain a few flaws..

1) Lack of a Persistent Universe: The final fantasy series does not have a persistent universe. This is the biggest roadblock. Because it lacks a persistent universe, there is no thread connecting the various games to each other. None at all. This means a thread will have to be *forced* into the plot in order to connect Midgar to Balamb Garden to Luca. Due to the sheer difference in universes, technologies, clothing styles, city design, etc...anything you do to connect them will be very obviously forced. And there is nothing more disconcerting, and distasteful, in a storyline than a forced universe. A universe should feel natural, not contrived. A contrived universe is an ever-present reminder to the gamer that they are playing a game and not participating in a pseudo-reality. It breaks the fourth wall and leaves it in pieces.

2) Lack of a coherent or original storyline: Related to the first problem is the 2nd problem, the storyline. There is really no good way to go about it, because there is no common denominator. It always boils down to some arbitrary reason worlds are forced together, usually due to some time-space anomaly. Sonic Generations, Kingdom Hearts, (insert other game here), they all use the same storyline with a different villain. Its old. Its shallow. Its not even creative. It can't be, because there just isn't any other logical rationalization for mashing a bunch of worlds together that existed in separate universes. Efforts to be creative usually end up as incoherent and convoluted, precisely because the topic (time-space anomalies) is not something easily understood even by the most accomplished of physicists. Now you're asking everyday gamers to understand it? Lol.

3) Lack of consistency: I'll use kingdom hearts as a perfect example of this point. For those of us who have played through the final fantasy series, we know how powerful some of the characters are. If Cloud shows up in my FFXIV, there is no reason why he can't go destroy (insert primal, villain, army here)...or why (insert black mage here) doesn't just drop a meteor wherever the hell he/she pleases. These crossovers have horrible consistency when it comes to power levels, precisely because they were originally balanced for single player games in isolated universes. Take Kingdom Hearts. Explain to me how a kid who's been swinging an oversized key for less than a year is able to handle both Cloud and Squall in the Coliseum. There's no way. Squall could one-shot him with any given limit break, and Cloud could lay him out a few times over. Tell me how a few swings from a key can put Squall down, when Squall can tank giant explosions from ultima weapon? You may think this is petty, but these inconsistencies can make die-hard fans of certain characters nerd-rage like you wouldn't believe. Its stupid for a boy who's balls have yet to drop, who hasn't known war, and has yet to see puberty, can fight two veterans who saved their respective planets on equal ground. Just. A. Joke. Explaining this in a universe also requires contrived reasons, further destroying the mind's ability to suspend disbelief.


All in all its a bad idea. I could go on, but it just doesn't work for MMORPGs. It can work for single player games, sure, as they dont need to be fun very long. But for a game you want ppl to pay for month after month? Just no. Nostalgia isn't that powerful.

Crazy Sora and his keyblade of mass destruction.

I don't think an MMORPG would work for these types of elements. And IF they ever decide to do it, I propose a reboot rather than the dimensional links.

Gilgamesh, Dissidia and FF13-2 hint that all dimensions are connected, but I'm not a fan of that concept and I'm certainly not a fan of Gilgamesh's interdimensional adventures...

Perhaps only he and his comrade can make the journey happen? The adventures Gilgamesh and Enkidu!

[Wincy]

Its hard to argue that Square Enix has made a well conceived Final Fantasy title since Final Fantasy X (FFX).

Sorry to dwindle your post down to just this, but I felt compelled to say that I really love FFXII. FFXIII I wasn't impressed, but that's just 1 (official numbered, discounting FFXIII-2) game, so really my statement would then read:

"I did not like the last Final Fantasy." Or..."I did not like the Final Fantasy before this one," since FFXIV is the highest numbered one to date, and I rather enjoy this game.

But since I liked IV, VI, VII, IX, XI and XII so much, they still have pretty solid track record in my mind. So basically my point is just, I don't understand why everyone gives SE such a hard time...

[Elexia]

Dissidia is actually the perfect concept if it was in a normal RPG setting rather than a fighting game. I mean, FFIX made a 'multiverse' work in a sense even if the 2nd world and it's culture was destroyed 30 minutes after you get there, so they have..well had it in them.

Though sadly the world is no longer a place for deep intertwined storylines, it's all fast paced "action action!" now, so unless they can make an action game that lasts 5 hours with a multiverse I don't see it happening.