On Extreme Role-playing Within XIV

[Theodric]

I don't have an issue with people playing characters who distrust Garleans or discriminate against them. I do, however, think that there's plenty of legitimate reasons for a Garlean to look down and discriminate against Eorzeans - which is often the point of contention. Personally I believe in nuance rather than absolutes.

Insofar as the Goug situation is concerned, bear in mind that Gabranth is not actually a Garlean himself and may not necessarily be speaking of Garlean ancestry as a whole as a result. Though when it comes to the Reaper lore blurb about peaceful farmers, I was referring to this:

Formerly a peaceful people living from agriculture in the southern part of the continent of Ilsabard, the Garlemaldais were driven from their lands by assailants with magical abilities far superior to theirs and had to settle in a cold and hostile region to the north. from the central mountain range.

Conscious of their natural inability to handle the ether, the Garlemaldais then developed a unique combat technique allowing them to come into contact with the world of nothingness through a crystal to attach the powers of a " avatar ", a creature of nothingness.

Armed with a scythe, reminiscent of their agricultural past, the few elected officials capable of mastering this technique call themselves "reapers"

It's from the French version of the Reaper promotional page, though it expands on what we have to work with in terms of the official lore book when it comes to their origins as well.

I'd also note, that the Dragonsong War lasted for a thousand years and only ended in recent times. The conflict with Garlemald, however, has lasted for a very tiny fraction of time by comparison. If the Ishgardians were able to overcome the scars of a conflict that spanned numerous generations, I'm sure the Eorzeans and Garleans can do the same thing - especially given that Eorzea itself was built on conquest and frequently reaped rewards in the process, which benefit it to this very day.

I'd also note that it doesn't particularly matter how much time has passed when the Garleans suffer from an inability to typically wield aether as the other inhabitants of the Source can. As such, they're always going to be on the defensive until it can be guaranteed that they will be left alone. I'd also note, it wasn't as if they decided to rise up one day and seek to conquer other nations for no reason. Let's also not forget that they did not have the convenience of the Warrior of Light to solve all their problems, which is often what stops Eorzea short of doing the same shady things it did in the past, such as zombifying the inhabitants of Sil'dih.

The conflicts in this game are pretty well written and nuanced. Many role-players choose to ignore that, though that's on them - they're free to avoid interacting with those of us who prefer to portray more complex characters and themes. Though I do think it's rather disingenuous for assumptions to be made about the motives of any individual choosing to portray an antagonist in a fictional fantasy game. Especially when many people have been doing so already across multiple MMO's for years with minimal or no issues and that European role-players seem to have done as much quite consistently.

Ultimately this is a game with a global audience and much of what people are complaining about appears to largely be limited to the North American role-playing community.

[MikkoAkure]

Insofar as the Goug situation is concerned, bear in mind that Gabranth is not actually a Garlean himself and may not necessarily be speaking of Garlean ancestry as a whole as a result.

I don't know what Gabranth has to do with this, I was referring to what the Garleans on the airship were talking about when you bring up Goug. Though when I checked back on the dialogue, apparently they were just 1 of 7 tribes that made up the future Garleans so I suppose we'll find out about the other 6.

I'd also note, that the Dragonsong War lasted for a thousand years and only ended in recent times. The conflict with Garlemald, however, has lasted for a very tiny fraction of time by comparison. If the Ishgardians were able to overcome the scars of a conflict that spanned numerous generations, I'm sure the Eorzeans and Garleans can do the same thing - especially given that Eorzea itself was built on conquest and frequently reaped rewards in the process, which benefit it to this very day.

That may eventually be the case but as of 5.5 we're not there yet. And it's also a bit much to presume that every player in or out of character would feel the same. You could also say the same about the Garleans themselves. Why are they still upset over getting kicked out 800 years ago when the Dravanians and Ishgardians had a 1000 year long war and they buried the hatchet?

I'd also note that it doesn't particularly matter how much time has passed when the Garleans suffer from an inability to typically wield aether as the other inhabitants of the Source can. As such, they're always going to be on the defensive until it can be guaranteed that they will be left alone. I'd also note, it wasn't as if they decided to rise up one day and seek to conquer other nations for no reason. Let's also not forget that they did not have the convenience of the Warrior of Light to solve all their problems, which is often what stops Eorzea short of doing the same shady things it did in the past, such as zombifying the inhabitants of Sil'dih.

The reason for Garleans deciding to go on a conquer spree has less to do with lack of aether or any territorial disputes from centuries past and more to do with the fact that an Ascian decided to feed on the gigantic chip on their shoulder and create a destructive force out of their resentment. It would be naive though to blame it all on Ascians or to use them or their history as en excuse to say that everything they did was justified. Nobody is saying that what the Eorzean city-states have done to their local beastmen is justified either. I would assume that an interaction between a beastman and an Eorzean would be also be colored by events of the past and to think otherwise would be ignorant of the world that was built for the game, just as one between a Garlean and an Eorzean.

Tying back into the original topic, your characters exist in a pre-written world and you're interacting with the general public whose characters also exist in a pre-written world. Your characters don't exist in a vacuum and people will have pre-existing ideas of certain concepts just as characters in-universe would. You shouldn't expect that everyone would want to RP with your character, regardless of who they are. Trying to force your "complex" character on people who don't want it and didn't ask for it is very presumptuous. While I don't RP, I've read a lot of character backgrounds on tumblr and carrd over the years and there are some way out ideas like vampires, angels, nephilim, and dragon robots. While you're free to come up with ideas that exist outside of the canon, you can't just assume that everyone you meet will be on board. I'm sure a lot of people just want to play with who and what they're comfortable with. A Garlean character comes with baggage, whether you want it or not. Some people might just not want to deal with that.

[Theodric]

I don't know what Gabranth has to do with this, I was referring to what the Garleans on the airship were talking about when you bring up Goug. Though when I checked back on the dialogue, apparently they were just 1 of 7 tribes that made up the future Garleans so I suppose we'll find out about the other 6.

Gabranth is the one who leads the research into Goug and he speaks of 'our ancestors' yet it is later revealed that he, himself, is a Midlander from the Republic of Landis rather than a Pureblooded Garlean. As I recall, very little was revealed about Goug in general though if some Garleans do have ancestry there then I'll admit to not being certain how a potential accident can be held against the people as a whole, especially if they were seeking to use technology as a means of working around an inability to manipulate aether.

I went back and double checked myself and I found this:

Jenomis cen Lexentale: Which led me to ask myself: what if the reason land was limited was because the land in question was an island?

Jenomis cen Lexentale: But that still would not explain the omission of the cataract. It is inconceivable that the authors would neglect to mention so prominent a landmark had it existed. And then I found it -- a lone passage regarding Goug's fall. While the particulars were missing, it appears the city was abandoned after an explosion left half of it in ruin.

Jenomis cen Lexentale: I believe that this explosion may have undermined a portion of the seabed. It need only have been a small area at first -- one that could well have gone unnoticed during the exodus. As time passed, however, the waters would have continued to wear away at the rock, slowly widening the gap until...

Jenomis cen Lexentale: Well, until we have what lies beneath us today. This would explain why there is no mention of Ridorana prior to the present era.

Ramza bas Lexentale: ...Come, Father -- will you not tell them the rest? Of the possibility that we Garleans are descended in part from the displaced citizens of Goug?

Ramza bas Lexentale: It would explain how the Empire was able to forge its armies of iron even before the discovery and application of Allagan technology.

Source: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Annihilation

The reason for the explosion is established as being unknown.

Tying back into the original topic, your characters exist in a pre-written world and you're interacting with the general public whose characters also exist in a pre-written world. Your characters don't exist in a vacuum and people will have pre-existing ideas of certain concepts just as characters in-universe would. You shouldn't expect that everyone would want to RP with your character, regardless of who they are. Trying to force your "complex" character on people who don't want it and didn't ask for it is very presumptuous. While I don't RP, I've read a lot of character backgrounds on tumblr and carrd over the years and there are some way out ideas like vampires, angels, nephilim, and dragon robots. While you're free to come up with ideas that exist outside of the canon, you can't just assume that everyone you meet will be on board. I'm sure a lot of people just want to play with who and what they're comfortable with. A Garlean character comes with baggage, whether you want it or not. Some people might just not want to deal with that.

I must admit, I'm a little confused by this. At no point did I suggest that anyone has to role-play with anybody else. I even said as much in my previous post. I have, however, throughout the thread pointed out that it is simply not acceptable to send people death threats for choosing to role-play a Garlean, nor is it acceptable for anyone to be making defamatory comments by implying that anyone choosing to do so is doing it because they, themselves, are 'bigots' in the real world.

It isn't an 'out there' concept to portray something that exists within the established canon, either. Garleans aren't really on the same level as angels and demons, since they exist in multiple settlements and factions throughout the game.

The player character isn't a bandit, but that doesn't mean that someone can't portray their role-play character as one. Such is pretty common and has been done across a number of MMO's without any issues.

I'd also note, again, a lot of people are arguing about the North American role-playing community. They're free to gatekeep opinions and 'acceptable' role-play practices all they wish, but they aren't universal and European players have - again, over multiple MMO's - an established trend of indulging in role-play with a bit more depth and nuance to it overall. That there was a sizeable migration of European role-players from Balmung to Omega speaks for itself in regards to cultural differences/preferences, in my opinion.

So it stands to reason, then, that the attempts to brand anyone seeking to role-play a Garlean as somehow wrong or a bad person are pretty disingenuous. Equally, I think it's fair to suggest that any given role-player needs to be able to separate a character from the person behind the screen. This is, I might add, a rather universally agreed upon rule within the role-playing community as a whole. That some opt to ignore it is unfortunate, but thankfully many role-players stand in active defiance of those who seek to stifle creativity and spread misery.

[MikkoAkure]

I must admit, I'm a little confused by this. At no point did I suggest that anyone has to role-play with anybody else. I even said as much in my previous post.

That was me trying to remain on topic and bring what I said to the topic as a whole, not to you specifically. Regarding yourself, you instead come across as having a dismissive attitude towards people who don't like your concept:

they're free to avoid interacting with those of us who prefer to portray more complex characters and themes.

You also seem insistent on constantly remind us about how the European RP community has more "depth and nuance". You mention how what players play shouldn't reflect on the person behind the keyboard but ironically you seem to act the same way as the Garleans as a whole in regards to the North American RP community.

[Theodric]

You also seem insistent on constantly remind us about how the European RP community has more "depth and nuance". You mention how what players play shouldn't reflect on the person behind the keyboard but ironically you seem to act the same way as the Garleans as a whole in regards to the North American RP community.

You're free to believe what you wish. I was simply making an observation that more often than not it is North American role-players who typically seem to struggle to separate a character from the role-player.

Given that European role-players do not struggle in that regard, I think it's fair to suggest that nobody should be sending death threats or defamatory comments to people who choose to role-play a Garlean. I don't see what's unreasonable about that, really.

Though as you yourself stated in your previous post, you're not a role-player. So I can completely understand something like this being difficult to follow, especially when jumping in part way through an ongoing discussion.

[DPZ2]

That there was a sizeable migration of European role-players from Balmung to Omega speaks for itself in regards to cultural differences/preferences, in my opinion.

I've my doubts about such an attribution. I believe that the migration of European players, in general, from North American Servers to European Servers was way more important to the move. That there may be some benefit in expanding the subject areas for Role Play is an effect, rather than a cause, of the migration.

[Theodric]

I've my doubts about such an attribution. I believe that the migration of European players, in general, from North American Servers to European Servers was way more important to the move. That there may be some benefit in expanding the subject areas for Role Play is an effect, rather than a cause, of the migration.

You're free to take it with a pinch of salt if you so wish, but I served as a moderator over on one of the sites devoted to FFXIV role-play for a period of time. I was constantly dealing with people quietly confiding in me that they felt a culture shock when moving from a European role-playing community in WoW to one dominated by American role-players in FFXIV. Of course, the benefit of having a better connection was a reason to move and an additional perk to many - myself included. Furthermore, some European role-players opted to stay on Balmung or Mateus rather than abandon the roots they had put down.

I think my point still stands, though.

[SugarPuff]

I've never role played in an mmo, only D&D and that was quite a few years ago. When I did, it was acceptable to embrace lore based intolerance between races (and classes in some situations) but only to a point that your fellow roleplayers were comfortable.

I don't know, but it would make sense to me if rp like that were more common in games like ESO where you see more Tolkien inspired fantasy. In that franchise and I would have to assume also any MMO directly based on LOTR or (if one exists) D&D, long-standing friction exists between the races. In FFXIV you have to know this game, not just any Final Fantasy. Of course, people are always free to create racist characters based solely around their personal backstories and that must happen but it's not something I ever encountered.

[Fyrebrand]

Sounds like a good way to get blacklisted, I guess..?

[Rosekitten]

Greetings, and baiting title aside I would like to begin a discussion over fringe role-playing within the game. No, not the usual degenerate type often debated, but rather what is almost never discussed. That being topics such as role-playing a character who might be racist, xenophobic or intolerant. A Garlean loyalist who believes in the cause, or a Xaela ultra nationalist. A moral compromised character. I've found these types of role-playing within XIV to be almost nonexistent and even treated as taboo. More so than even actual unseemly roleplay of the other type. This is strange to me, as I come from other games that have a much more varied community when it comes to types of characters roleplayed. It makes XIV's scene seem stagnant and boring. Thoughts on why?

You need to find the right crowd really.. we run a fc tavern and open it and pretty much anything and all is welcome. Just don't expect all characters to react in kind depending on their own back stories. We've had a few of the listed types above but it's pretty uncommon over all.