FF14 Endgame?

[Izscha]

it takes practice and a desire to improve that's stronger than one's own ego. And barring physical disabilities and potato pcs, most people have the CAPACITY to "git gud" and clear savages/ultimates. It just depends on those individuals' desire to do so

That's exactly why 95 % can't do it.
Potato pc doesn't change shit either, got a lot of raids with players playing even ultimate with 15 fps max and everything in low, even with windowed game.
Same thing for handicap, there is plenty of ppl that did overcome it and played at the top.
All comes down to motivation, and once again that's why 95 % will never do it, lazyness/sloth isn't one of the deadly sins for no reason

[Roda]

That's exactly why 95 % can't do it.
Potato pc doesn't change shit either, got a lot of raids with players playing even ultimate with 15 fps max and everything in low, even with windowed game.
Same thing for handicap, there is plenty of ppl that did overcome it and played at the top.
All comes down to motivation, and once again that's why 95 % will never do it, lazyness/sloth isn't one of the deadly sins for no reason

Also note that a big motivator for people to not improve is the mindset of "what's the point?" Setting expectations for players to not improve plants the idea in their head that progress is unattainable. (Pessimism/cynicism is contagious you know.) I have absolutely adopted some poor newbies who were dumped out of guilds and raid group who had this attitude. They had convinced themselves that they were only good as carries and warm bodies. All it took was a bit of work to heal their confidence and give them guidance on game systems and they were downing some of the hardest challenges those games had to offer.

Saying they "wont" do it is fine. Personal disinterest in gamemodes is completely valid. Not everyone has the time, patience or interest on these things, but saying they "cant" because they're "lazy" or just inherently "bad" is defeatist, gatekeepy and I won't accept it as a healthy or productive outlook of other people.

[Izscha]

Also note that a big motivator for people to not improve is the mindset of "what's the point?" Setting expectations for players to not improve plants the idea in their head that progress is unattainable. (Pessimism/cynicism is contagious you know.) I have absolutely adopted some poor newbies who were dumped out of guilds and raid group who had this attitude. They had convinced themselves that they were only good as carries and warm bodies. All it took was a bit of work to heal their confidence and give them guidance on game systems and they were downing some of the hardest challenges those games had to offer.

Saying they "wont" do it is fine. Personal disinterest in gamemodes is completely valid. Not everyone has the time, patience or interest on these things, but saying they "cant" because they're "lazy" or just inherently "bad" is defeatist, gatekeepy and I won't accept it as a healthy or productive outlook of other people.

i admire your naive way to look at it, that's clearly something i can't do with this community but good for you if you had not given up yet and i'm serious no sarcasm here.

[Roda]

i admire your naive way to look at it, that's clearly something i can't do with this community but good for you if you had not given up yet and i'm serious no sarcasm here.

Its not really naive when it's based on more than a decade of mmo experience.

I'm just a very stubborn problem solver who has a like an honest-to-god addiction to helping people.

[Izscha]

Its not really naive when it's based on more than a decade of mmo experience.

I'm just a very stubborn problem solver who has a like an honest-to-god addiction to helping people.

I had no other word for it, i would use candide but it seems that in english this word has another meaning than my langage where it's someone who is way too good no matter what happens that ppl might abuse his kindness.
I did not say naive in a negativ way but once again i had no other word that would describe it more accuratly.
Funny because my "more than a decade" mmo experience did taught me the exact opposite haha.

[Roda]

I had no other word for it, i would use candide but it seems that in english this word has another meaning than my langage where it's someone who is way too good no matter what happens that ppl might abuse his kindness.
I did not say naive in a negativ way but once again i had no other word that would describe it more accuratly.
Funny because my "more than a decade" mmo experience did taught me the exact opposite haha.

Thats fair. I've just lost patience with the conclusion of "good-faith = stupidity" that so many cynicism-poisoned internet goers hold. Just a whiff of it gets me all fighty.

Optimistic, or charitable would probably be good words. (Though I would describe myself as... "situationally ambitious" ... I think..)

[Leonerdo]

-snip-
Tldr: "hard right now" doesn't mean "impossible forever"
If you're a savage raider and you're curious about ultimates, go for it.
-snip-

This is a much better explanation. Had to snip it for post length, but I agree with it all. I'm sorry for memeing on you before. (I still think it's funny though.)

I didn't think it was right to call Savage/Ultimate fights "easy". I'd rather say they are hard in an approachable way. Like they don't require a huge amount of raw talent; anyone could clear them with enough practice and a little help. But there's a lot of steps to clearing an Ultimate (learning your rotations, finding a group with a compatible schedule, learning each mechanic, dealing with interpersonal drama), but each of those steps is manageable if you can put a few hours per week into it.

I just don't want to understate how much effort and time they take overall (with few exceptions *cough*RichCoB*cough*). It does seem easier though, once you've done it a couple times, and get used to breaking it down into one little problem at a time.

I had no other word for it, i would use candide but it seems that in english this word has another meaning than my langage where it's someone who is way too good no matter what happens that ppl might abuse his kindness.
I did not say naive in a negativ way but once again i had no other word that would describe it more accuratly.

"Naive" is pretty close, but usually has a negative connotation, like inexperienced. "Optimist" might be what you're thinking of. It means someone who thinks positively and expects they can reach a good outcome, despite any difficult circumstances.

[Roda]

This is a much better explanation. Had to snip it for post length, but I agree with it all. I'm sorry for memeing on you before. (I still think it's funny though.)

I didn't think it was right to call Savage/Ultimate fights "easy". I'd rather say they are hard in an approachable way. Like they don't require a huge amount of raw talent; anyone could clear them with enough practice and a little help. But there's a lot of steps to clearing an Ultimate (learning your rotations, finding a group with a compatible schedule, learning each mechanic, dealing with interpersonal drama), but each of those steps is manageable if you can put a few hours per week into it.

I just don't want to understate how much effort and time they take overall (with few exceptions *cough*RichCoB*cough*). It does seem easier though, once you've done it a couple times, and get used to breaking it down into one little problem at a time.

What my posts meant to convey was that they are easiER than a lot of people make them out to be. There's just this illusion around them that you have to be born this god-tier, fast reflex, no-life, poop-sock gamer to even see prog in them, and that's just not an accurate portrayal of them. (And you see this mindset starting at exes and into savages as well) Like you said, with something that seems like a big challenge, you have to break it down into its parts and work on them individually. Big problems become small problems, small problems become solved problems, etc! It's a core skill of raiding. (and honestly, a core skill in general life :P) But a lot of people present the fights as just ONE BIG IMPENETRABLE PROBLEM and people who haven't had any hands-on raiding experience just take it at face value. When really, usually if you meet the requirements of interest, time, stamina, people-skills, and general competency at the game, then ultimates are entirely attainable. And if you're missing any of those requirements but are still interested, then there's ways to work on them (except time, time is hard and I get that), just gotta work on them one at a time. :P

It does take a lot of effort to make all the moving pieces move in harmony, but also, if you're interested in that kind of content, the effort is the fun part! :>

And the streamer carries are... interesting... on a "how do we classify this experience" kind of level.
like it's not a HARD carry... But they are also obviously putting some of their load on their partymates.
There is a point to be made that the inexperienced view should know that their runs are not the average, or even normal ultimate experiences. And I'd honestly say they aren't even fun ultimate experiences.
There's a lot more confusion, a lot more stopping and discussing what happened and what the team should do to deal with certain things. A lot of "Shoot I should've done X" and "you should look out for Y so you can do Z" and "JAGD DOLL PLEASE!!!!"
I'm personally excited to see these WoW raider refugees try some real fresh prog on these things. That should be really fun to watch.

[TaleraRistain]

All comes down to motivation, and once again that's why 95 % will never do it, lazyness/sloth isn't one of the deadly sins for no reason

Why is it always blamed on laziness? There is also disinterest. Do you go out in real life and learn all the musical instruments, all the dances, read every book, watch every movie and series, etc? Why is it any different if someone isn't interested in raiding here? We all like different aspects of this game. A lot of that 95% put their game time into other things because this game isn't just focused on raiding as its content.