A lot of the main issues with SCH are not being addressed with Endwalker

[Shurrikhan]

Tell me, is getting rid of Ruminate stacks for CT any different than getting rid of the fairy for Dissipation when the ultimate thing is that they give you more Aetherflow, which seems to be the crux of your argument.

One sacrifices significant healing over time and access to Fey Illumination, Whispering Dawn, Fey Blessing, and fairy tether.

The other sacrifices an instant-cast Broil that may carry a single-target damage-down debuff of at best 20% uptime.

See why sacrificing the one for Aetherflow would be mildly "situational"... but the other's sacrifice would amount to awkward-but-obligatory hoop jumping, since the relative cost is next to nil?

Virus was an old cross class ability that SCH/SMN used to have that would apply a damage down debuff to the target for 10s but made the target immune to the status effect for 60s after it was finished.

I'm aware, though admittedly I'd forgotten that it also affected Intelligence on ACN/SCH/SMN (and only Strength and Dexterity for others), unlike the later Addle. I still don't much care for having to look at the target's buffs to track when you can next spend your instant-cast Broils (Ruminate) for their full effect.

[Silver-Strider]

One sacrifices significant healing over time and access to Fey Illumination, Whispering Dawn, Fey Blessing, and fairy tether.

The other sacrifices an instant-cast Broil that may carry a single-target damage-down debuff of at best 20% uptime.

See why sacrificing the one for Aetherflow would be mildly "situational"... but the other's sacrifice would amount to awkward-but-obligatory hoop jumping, since the relative cost is next to nil?


I'm aware, though admittedly I'd forgotten that it also affected Intelligence on ACN/SCH/SMN (and only Strength and Dexterity for others), unlike the later Addle. I still don't much care for having to look at the target's buffs to track when you can next spend your instant-cast Broils (Ruminate) for their full effect.

No because to me Dissipation is both situational and still requires jumping thru hoops just to utilize successfully and for what? 3 Aetherflow and a 20% heal buff that only works on 3 skills. That isn't a choice. That's a clusterpuck that only works if I sacrifice my 1st born when the stars align under a Blue Moon. I see no benefit, only hindrance but don't think either of us will be able to agree one way or another on that.

[Shurrikhan]

No because to me Dissipation is both situational and still requires jumping thru hoops just to utilize successfully and for what? 3 Aetherflow and a 20% heal buff that only works on 3 skills. That isn't a choice. That's a clusterpuck that only works if I sacrifice my 1st born when the stars align under a Blue Moon. I see no benefit, only hindrance but don't think either of us will be able to agree one way or another on that.

But Dissipation is at least a trade of categorically similar things -- periodic healing for resources that can be spent on healing, rather than mobility (instant-cast Broils) for said resource.

Your Rumination, at present, is going to be little more than a trap, as saving 1.5 seconds of cast-time on a Broil is never going to be worth more than an Aetherflow stack. So you end up sacrificing two buttons -- one a trap, one a CD -- just to effectively grant Aetherflow per pet action cast. Given that we end up with effectively a non-decision, what is the point of those two extra hoops, as opposed to just allowing us to bank to 5 stacks of AF and having pet actions each grant an AF stack (assuming we even needed more AF, given that --because of our pet-- we already have a pretty combined damage-and-healing curve).

I'd argue that Dissipation should be slightly more worth using for curative purposes and faintly more usable generally; but, while those largest impacts to be had there would be on the fight designs themselves, that still leaves a lot of tuning levers in the skill's design. And that retuning, for it to better allow for the gameplay decisions it was originally intended for, does not require that we sacrifice choice in favor of free bonus resources we have to cycle through another CD in alignment with yet another CD, etc.

For instance, I'd argue that Dissipation should have a shorter duration and a more immediately usable effect towards shielding (as opposed to the whopping 30 seconds of a meager 20% healing buff) as to make it more viable for emergency or cheese heals.

Even if we needed to heal 100% of the time (we never do) and thereafter the pet would make up less than 20% of our healing throughput, we'd never drop the pet just to make up for that through our own GCD casts; we'd do it only for the immediacy and the effect on our shielding. So have the healing buff start higher, but fade with time (or casts made). Perhaps pair it with increases casting speed on Adlo and Succor. Whatever makes it useful more often, in the encounters/environments we want to push towards, for more than just better milking a raid window (though I am in no hurry to get rid of that capacity so long as it doesn't overwhelm our other needs or uses for Dissipation).

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

Rumination is designed to be more like a Macrocosmos for SCH in that its a DPS neutral skill with utility attached. Due to the weaker nature of Virus vs Macrocosmos, I felt it should be available more often to offset the disparity between the 2 skills but with a way to trade it off so that we aren't overcapped. The way I view it is that I'm getting rid of utility for Aetherflow but due to the nature of Aetherflow abilities having CDs that prevent spamming, you're only options come down to Lustrate or E.Drain so Utility vs Damage is the basis of the idea whereas it's currently Healing vs Damage. Now, I'm not fundamentally against the concept of Healing vs Damage but it has to be done right, which is where Dissipation currently fails at. An example of Heal vs Damage done right was old Cleric Stance where it was a quick toggle between the 2. That type of mechanic doesn't work with Dissipation because its a forced 30s of Cleric Stance with only 3 Aetherflow and a 20% healing buff to work with to try and capitalize on. In order to make it actually worth while would require making an extremely specific heal check that would force SCH to actively need Dissipation but because combat design in this game is such that bringing specific classes is not a requirement for completing content, that type of thing would never happen because it would create a rift between the healers; Why bring a SCH that would struggle with X mechanic when a WHM or AST could breeze thru it?

Shortening the duration of Dissipation would make it feel like less a choice and more an requirement for optimal play.
Increasing the damage of E.Drain while under Dissipation would just make E.Drain spam the only way to go with it and still wouldn't justify a 30s lockout of the fairy.
Increasing the Heal buff would just make Shield Cheesing a lot easier, even more so now that Protraction is a thing and Deployment now aligns with Recitation. A potency increase/decrease over time wouldn't really change that either because you only need 1 properly buffed shield to cheese a mechanic and once it becomes possible, SCH having the only way of doing this makes it pretty hard to balance between the other healers.

I cannot think of a single way to make Dissipation work in its current form without either being useless or borderline OP with nothing really in between. There's just no saving it.

[shadowrell_d-_-b]

Yep and that exactly why I’m going to sage, it’s like they just don’t care about sch anymore and it’s really disappointing

[inhaledcorn]

I felt a disturbance in the Force...

Like the voices of millions of DRKs and SCHs cried out in terror then were suddenly silenced.

[ThorneDynasty]

I felt a disturbance in the Force...

Like the voices of millions of DRKs and SCHs cried out in terror then were suddenly silenced.

The good thing about DRK is that it really puts SCH in pespective. Like the changes just seem pretty cool to me. I get it it's not this return to the glory days for people who have played the job longer than me, but I genuinely don't get what the uproar about EW changes specifically was about anymore.

But then again I was a DRK main.

[Recon1o6]

The good thing about DRK is that it really puts SCH in pespective. Like the changes just seem pretty cool to me. I get it it's not this return to the glory days for people who have played the job longer than me, but I genuinely don't get what the uproar about EW changes specifically was about anymore.

But then again I was a DRK main.

Well drk was already shit and not getting anything in the media tour build, yet they somehow made it worse for the full release

seriously, making abyssal drain and carve/spit on the same cd? Have any of them played ANYTHING than a dps?

[Annihilism]

SCH was my main healer, once I get to 90 it's not getting touched until it's fixed. Fortunately the replacement shield healer is the most enjoyable healer out of the four, it is what it is.

[Deceptus]

I felt a disturbance in the Force...

Like the voices of millions of DRKs and SCHs cried out in terror then were suddenly silenced. ignored

FTFY
/10char