Baffling behavior

[Raven2014]

The second pack (3 dudes) I engage again. Attack first to establish aggro. In that 2 second span, the same thing happens. No heals. I die AND the dps die after. I suggested that we play our roles and the dps take the healers side...even though no heals were made and we all died. Im happy to clarify, its just ive wrote this 3x already and i feel some people arent reading anything.

You do realize that most healing spell take more than 2 seconds to cast ... right? Especially the spell that potent enough to keep a tank who is melting alive. Meaning even if the healer somehow starts casting moment before you even get hit, you still won't get the heal in time anyway. Sure, there is instant cast, but at lvl69 they are basically oh shit button reserve for an emergency, not the tool healer are expected to use when the tank has a single group of trash on him.

Even if we assume the healer gonna spam their faster heal, it will requires them to react within just half a second of you getting hit to get the heal out in time, something that ... unless I misread ... you proudly claimed you can not do yourself in the following quote:

In the span of a half button press? No, sorry, i havent mastered hyperspeed.

yet you expect your healer does?

I don't know if you realize how entitled or oblivious you are to your own problem. You think it's perfectly fine for you to make an excuse that you die too fast to active your mitigation ... which would be an instant cast ... yet you think it's 100% reasonable to blame the healer who would have to also hit a button - with cast time - to heal you up in time? Do you even realize the absurdity of your logic here?

Also, in your own word you admit you die in just 2 second with MINIMUM amount of trash on you, that's 101% on you. At proper gear level, a tank will easily last for more than 5 seconds even if he pulls wall to wall. And your recton "I did it later with another healer" doesn't mean anything positive for you, it just means you being carried. Claiming you don't need to be carried doesn't change the fact you had to be carried. Clearing a duty is like feeling a jug with water, as long as the needed amount got poured into it, it will get filled and the duty can be cleared, that doesn't mean everyone put in their fair share. The fact is simple, it's impossible for your to contribute a fair share with the gear you had no matter how much you want to dress up your argument, that means your group had to compensate for you, and that means you were being carried, and no amount of self-protest will change that.


I'm glad I see a lvl80 BRD attached to your avatar, and I hope that's what you will stick to. Don't get me wrong, it's not even a matter of skill. Every one was no0b once, I had been kicked both as tank and as healer before over my many years for being bad, for trying to sneak a clear without proper gears ...etc... the difference is I realize when the issue lie with me. Based on the way you tell your story without realize how absurd it is, and the way you response to people ... I'm not sure you can do the same.

[Yeol]

I'm being positive and assuming that the healer couldn't heal the tank due to the tank gear being inappropriate for the duty. Not that the healer didn't want to heal the tank because of their gear.

OP explained that another healer was able to heal them through the same dungeon with the same gear. OP, not all healers have the same skill. Some will be able to heal you, others won't. It's always best to ensure that you're well geared for the content you are doing.

[Nethereal]

OP explained that another healer was able to heal them through the same dungeon with the same gear. OP, not all healers have the same skill.

It's not even a matter of skill, some pulls require you to be capped item level & have a WHM or you're going to struggle bus it.

Dungeons are leveling content, WHM has the best healing experience in leveling content because they have the highest HPS in a vacuum, dungeons pulls are the closest thing you can get to a vacuum.
WHM > Diurnal AST> SCH> Nocturnal AST

Some pulls just can't be done easily if at all with the wrong class let alone tank item level being low.

Also side note, this has nothing to do with you but with this thread.

I hate people who talk about the way something should be instead of the way it actually is: "He's got the item level set by SE to get in so by their standards he's allowed."
I don't think SE thought people would be using different class gear to avoid item level restrictions, just like I don't think they thought about how people would take off gear to get specific dungeons in roulettes.
It is so absolutely aggravating when people talk about the way something should be because someone they gave figurative authority to can't be wrong.
Acknowledge, adapt, overcome. Not winning any prizes pretending the worlds a better place than it is.

[Thurmnmurmn]

I hate people who talk about the way something should be instead of the way it actually is: "He's got the item level set by SE to get in so by their standards he's allowed."
I don't think SE thought people would be using different class gear to avoid item level restrictions, just like I don't think they thought about how people would take off gear to get specific dungeons in roulettes.
It is so absolutely aggravating when people talk about the way something should be because someone they gave figurative authority to can't be wrong.
Acknowledge, adapt, overcome. Not winning any prizes pretending the worlds a better place than it is.

You got it backwards from my intentions. The fact you can do it is indeed the truth so no it's not about "the way something should be". The reason to bring it up is to actually get a solution out of this.
What's a better outcome? Berate every player who does go in under geared or ask SE to change the system so that they can't do that?

[BaconBits]

You got it backwards from my intentions. The fact you can do it is indeed the truth so no it's not about "the way something should be". The reason to bring it up is to actually get a solution out of this.
What's a better outcome? Berate every player who does go in under geared or ask SE to change the system so they can't do that?

Yes. SE should absolutely change their god awful system to prevent people from showing up hilariously undergeared and wearing accessories that aren't even suited to their role. In fact, they should add minimum ilvl requirements to story mode trials and make soul crystals a requirement past Haukke Manor as well. If I had a dollar for every player that shows up to freaking Titania wearing HW level gear and jobless players roaming around past level 50, I would have an uncomfortable amount of dollars.

[LittleImp]

You got it backwards from my intentions. The fact you can do it is indeed the truth so no it's not about "the way something should be". The reason to bring it up is to actually get a solution out of this.
What's a better outcome? Berate every player who does go in under geared or ask SE to change the system so that they can't do that?

Yes to both of these, though 'berating' might be an overly aggressive word.

If someone enters a duty and are severely under-geared to an obstructive degree, they need to be informed of that fact and possibly dismissed from the duty. This is a cooperative multiplayer game. It is unfair for a player to believe they are entitled to offload massive amounts of additional responsibility onto their teammates, simply because they can't be bothered to keep their gear vaguely up to date. I've seen people sneak into trials with weapons an expansion or more out of date, and literally fully obstruct the party from progressing..

[DragoAskani]

Second point, I'm unsure how people believe its okay to focus DPS while the team needs heals. I don't mean like top them off from a scratch, I mean, were at 10% where are you on this? I believe many MANY people are mislead that DPS is a big priority to a healer when healing needs to be done. I'm told the creator is to blame but I don't buy it. Its one thing if one says "DO DPS, it saves 10 seconds" but its another when you're casting DMG spells and see people die. I main SCH and I've been in tough spots where I'm healing with no downtime.

So the healers job is just to make sure no body dies. As long as they dont die then they did their job correctly. Now in this scenario you describe that is not the case. But in general the must keep all hp bars at 90% full at all times healers are actually kinda bad healers.

[DragoAskani]

You have to put yourself in the situation. The first mob running in with an attack and before you even can do the next action, you die because you took a lot of damage. You're going to sit there and say "well how come you didn't react within a half press of a button?"

Let's get real here. This whole situation happened within like 2 minutes. This isn't as complicated as some users here are making it out to be. I'm not sure why it's hard to fathom that we can run into bad players. We weren't in the dungeon for that long.

S
The second pack (3 dudes) I engage again. Attack first to establish aggro. In that 2 second span, the same thing happens. No heals. I die AND the dps die after. I suggested that we play our roles and the dps take the healers side...even though no heals were made and we all died. Im happy to clarify, its just ive wrote this 3x already and i feel some people arent reading anything.

Guess I should have read more before I posted my previous comment. If you are dying because you are so undergeared that you cant even pop a mitigation cooldown what in gods green earth do you expect a healer to do about it? Seriously, have you even thought for one half a second about that? I remove all benefit of the doubt that I had for you before. If you die to a single pack before you can mitigate the problem is NOT ONLY the healer. (its mainly a you problem)

[BaconBits]

Character Development arc any% Speedrun (World Record)

[Raven2014]

I hate people who talk about the way something should be instead of the way it actually is: "He's got the item level set by SE to get in so by their standards he's allowed."
I don't think SE thought people would be using different class gear to avoid item level restrictions, just like I don't think they thought about how people would take off gear to get specific dungeons in roulettes.

Yeah, it just goes to show the people use that argument are clueless. The system is complete garbage below lvl70. I'm rerolling on an alt while waiting for Edge and it has been hilarious. At lvl34, the best gear system want to swap out my lvl25 dungeon tank piece for a lvl31 caster piece (cloth). I thought ... maybe they just base on vit. Then when I was at lvl45, it wants to swap out my lvl44 Darkhold tank piece (which is the best tank piece for the level) for a lvl41 DPS piece from the previous dungeon. At that point I just gave up trying to understand it. And that's beside the issue like you said people can just swap gear to meet the ilvl check.


And in a way SE admitted that is an issue, that's why in later expack they locked gears into their specific classes ... but they never go back and fix it for the first half portion of the game. Unless you're 70+, saying "the game let me queue so I have enough ivl" doesn't mean squat.