"Everyone's so open and friendly" is a lie

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

even if i absolutly agree with you there, and are right on this, ppl just have too much pride to even accept advice, playing since 2.0, and been a drk since heavensward released and never changed, its absolutly MINDBLOWING how many ppl just will take GREAT offense if you ever even "suggest" to give an advice, as a main tank (and many will be in my feet here) its a repeating thing, you see offended ppl everywhere for the slightest of thing, ppl are toxic with too much pride its a fact, and because of that yes ! i admit im tired of "trying" to give advice, because i dont want to risk having a god damn argument on "you dont pay my sub" thing too tired of it, tryed many MANY time, and way more time than i wished for ended in a pointless arguments, because again ppl have too much pride to even admit that they may be wrong

In my experience most ppl dont know what being helpful actually means, and think just lambasting someone and insulting them is Constructive Criticism and is suppose to help them. And when it proves ineffective they always act all surprised and try to cover up with "Im trying to help you"
When...all they did was just insult people. Which then creates a resentment which makes them Hostile to anybody who might actually try to be helpful.
Not that Im trying to ignore or discredit what your saying, it is an Issue on both sides and I get it, but it mostly comes down to how its done; which may involve the unfair balance of you taking someones crap to try and eventually get through to them.

And....if Diplomacy fails.....you tried...it sucks and feels like wasted time. But you can't esuna stupid, or help people unwilling to accept it.
Just find a new group.

[Jadedsins]

This whole being helpful thing is not as nice as you all make it to be. Many players who play other mmos, have went through so much drama and "This is how you need to do it" Pep talks, that that sort of kindness is not needed or welcome by them. And can you really blame them? If you doing a pug group. Just accept that players will do it for fun, and helping them play better might not be wanted. A bad group is not that big of a deal.

[Rinhi]

Sure I've slowed down a bit so maybe I'm missing these long raids ... but what raid is taking an hour? Ever?

is Chaos DC that much different than Aether?

while I don't completely agree with their point, I've had multiple WoD's, dun scaiths and ivalice raids that took over an hour on primal

[caffe_macchiato]

So even if this fake kindness is "fake". That is fine? Most humans are not decent people, and I've seen proof of that in the last 8 or so years more so than normal. So a game that forces you to play nice or pay the price is what mmo players need. In fact after watching new world. I think it should be the standards.

This. Final Fantasy XIV has helped me understand more than anything that humans are naturally competitive, self-interested, and crave dominance and power at the expense of others. It’s a tough lesson to learn, and it’s even more jarring that people pretend that the FFXIV player base is a paradise. It’s not, it’s just as savage as WoW or other games. What Square Enix does is give you the ability to opt out of that interaction while also being able to play the game with other people. If you want to unleash the social Darwinism simulator that is the greater FFXIV community, people are welcome to do so at their own will outside of the game. If only we had more robust in-game chat features like a persistent chat log, offline tells, and voice chat so we can kick Discord to the curb (a pipe dream, but alas). Those features would really allow FFXIV to fulfill the vision that Square Enix has of being a friendly community.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

This. Final Fantasy XIV has helped me understand more than anything that humans are naturally competitive, self-interested, and crave dominance and power at the expense of others. It’s a tough lesson to learn, and it’s even more jarring that people pretend that the FFXIV player base is a paradise. It’s not, it’s just as savage as WoW or other games. What Square Enix does is give you the ability to opt out of that interaction while also being able to play the game with other people. If you want to unleash the social Darwinism simulator that is the greater FFXIV community, people are welcome to do so at their own will outside of the game. If only we had more robust in-game chat features like a persistent chat log, offline tells, and voice chat so we can kick Discord to the curb (a pipe dream, but alas). Those features would really allow FFXIV to fulfill the vision that Square Enix has of being a friendly community.

omg an FFXIV with in game voice chat and community tools that are actually good? Be still my heart! You are describing online utopia.

[Sesera]

This whole being helpful thing is not as nice as you all make it to be. Many players who play other mmos, have went through so much drama and "This is how you need to do it" Pep talks, that that sort of kindness is not needed or welcome by them. And can you really blame them? If you doing a pug group. Just accept that players will do it for fun, and helping them play better might not be wanted. A bad group is not that big of a deal.

If you want to be a clown there is circus for thar. Be happy people give you a chance instead of kicking you right of the bat.

[LittleImp]

People simply don't like to be told they're wrong, regardless of how nice you are. Effectively receiving criticism is a learned behavior. This is basic human nature, and you will encounter it in any space, be it work, school or a video game like FFXIV.

The FFXIV community is weird in comparison to other games though, in that here we blame the person reaching out and giving the advice rather than the person who becomes aggressive after receiving it. This is extremely disheartening to many people who are genuinely trying to reach out and help other players; I've seen many, many chatlogs and cases where someone is being as nice as humanly possible while giving advice, and the other person still launches into a tirade and bitterly attacks them. I've even seen it happen in settings where people willingly submitted themselves for criticism. I know a lot of FFXIV educators that have quit teaching entirely because they encountered one too many cases of this kind of thing.

Personally, I switched from teaching pug learning parties to taking on individual, dedicated learners. I still get the occasional crazy, but the environment is much more controlled and all of the communication takes place on a third-party platform. Improved my teaching experience ten-fold.

[Escalon]

For me, rather than giving me the "All nice and caring spiel" tell me straight to the point what I did wrong. I dont need it to be nicely dressed, get to the point, be it with insults or without. Unlike half of the player base, I have thick skin, Call me what you want as long as it gets the point across, and I'm not so sensitive that I will report you for doing so. Saves me, you and the others time.

[Leifei]

I really don't think it's the policies fault for people to be passive aggressive, they will always be with or without policies. This goes for every community, rules help silence truly toxic people, but it won't stop the 70% less "toxic" people to behave like adults.
Been playing the game for 8 years and I had overwhelmingly positive experience but that is because I left every circle asap that seemed very immature and drama seeking. Trust me, changing the rules will not change peoples behaviors and personality. It's just a matter of being able to weed out the really dodgy ones in order to find normal folks to play with.

This is the way.

[Leifei]

Let me tell you something, I live in a family where passive aggressive behavior thrives. It creates the same problems as being rude, expect when people openly speak and get called out for being rude sometimes apologies happen. Apologies never happen with passive aggressive behavior as it makes things fester creating resentment on both sides. This attitude is a blight upon modern society because no one has enough guts to deal with problems like adults and sit down to discuss problems.

When it comes to people being passive aggressive, that's likely a learned a behavior that has been part of said person's character for a long time. In my opinion, lifting restrictions on toxic behavior won't make an indirect person become direct. To me, when people are passive aggressive, it's best not to engage them. Give them the gift of missing you by not doing content with them and not chatting with them any more. You can also call them out on their behavior without being toxic.