"Everyone's so open and friendly" is a lie

[KizuyaKatogami]

I’ve experienced most of my toxicity in normal dungeons rather than ex or savage tbh. Moreso because it’s the toxic casualism and enabling that’s the issue. People in endgame dungeons not knowing their rotation or knowing to aoe/dps on healer etc. And then trying to tell them what to do and they get aggressive and it’s counted as “forcing your play style on them.” Yikes.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

FFXIV's community is exactly the same as anywhere else. There are as many good elements within it as toxic ones, and people really need to stop trying to deny one or the other exists just because it doesn't fit into their narrow view of what the community "is". They also need to stop saying toxicity only exists in X or Y content - sorry to burst most people's bubble, but casual players are just as much - if not even more - toxic as raiders.

Really, the only difference here compared to WoW or LoL or whatever other game people might bring up, is the brand of toxicity - one that isn't quite as common to see in some MMOs. This incredibly disturbing fake-positivity, passive aggressive, high school drama gossip levels of toxicity that breeds all sorts of people who can't seem to comprehend how to actually discuss issues or address problems others bring up, without resorting to throwing the epitome of a childish tantrum at best, and attempting to gaslight people at worst.

And man, I came from a little MMO called SMT:Imagine, which had a small enough pool of players that most people knew each other in some form, and where high school drama and bullying was rampant. Somehow, XIV can be even worse than that - and I genuinely don't know how that's possible.

[Minnel]

Really, the only difference here compared to WoW or LoL or whatever other game people might bring up, is the brand of toxicity - one that isn't quite as common to see in some MMOs. This incredibly disturbing fake-positivity, passive aggressive, high school drama gossip levels of toxicity that breeds all sorts of people who can't seem to comprehend how to actually discuss issues or address problems others bring up, without resorting to throwing the epitome of a childish tantrum at best, and attempting to gaslight people at worst.

I don't think LOL community is a great one to set as an example here. Because of the competative nature of the game, it has a whole new level of toxicity than most games. That game is so toxic that even Buddah will loose his composure within hours.

Also I don't think it's the brand of toxicity that matters. I think what really makes the difference is the % of people that partake in certain toxic behaviors. The drama/gossip/etc is apparant in any game that has a social aspect in-game. It's just more apparant in games that have devs that actually enforce their ToA.
Honesrly, after playing RPG for 10+years, I've come to realize toxicity is never going away. It's going to exist one way or another. The only way to stop it would be to have FBI watch over each individual player and publicly execute them whenever they exhibit slightest bit of toxicity. Even then, I bet people will still find ways to be toxic.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I don't think LOL community is a great one to set as an example here. Because of the competative nature of the game, it has a whole new level of toxicity than most games. That game is so toxic that even Buddah will loose his composure within hours.

Also I don't think it's the brand of toxicity that matters. I think what really makes the difference is the % of people that partake in certain toxic behaviors. The drama/gossip/etc is apparant in any game that has a social aspect in-game. It's just more apparant in games that have devs that actually enforce their ToA.
Honesrly, after playing RPG for 10+years, I've come to realize toxicity is never going away. It's going to exist one way or another. The only way to stop it would be to have FBI watch over each individual player and publicly execute them whenever they exhibit slightest bit of toxicity. Even then, I bet people will still find ways to be toxic.

I never claimed LoL wasn't a toxic cesspool, just that it's far more openly hostile compared to XIV's preferred method of passive aggression and manipulation/gaslighting.

You are correct that toxicity is everywhere and won't go away - which is the exact point I was making. XIV isn't somehow free of it, we just have a different form compared to some other games.

The majority of players are chill, in this or any MMO; but every MMO has its share of negative elements as well. I think the major point of the OP was just that people seem to try to bury this fact with FFXIV in particular, when all it does is set a poor precedent for someone's overall experience. Thinking the community is nothing but positive and wholesome will make running into the less savory elements that much more damaging, in the long run.

The only difference here is you can't as easily report toxic people as elsewhere, because - be it the ToS or other reasons - this game breeds an environment where passive aggression slides under the radar and causes far more damage in the long term than some idiot screaming slurs in shout chat would. The latter will (usually) get swiftly reported and dealt with, even if they make alts to continue doing the same thing over and over again. Someone being passive aggressive and resorting to emotional manipulation or mental abuse will not so easily be rid of, as they know how to skirt under the ToS to avoid a report.

[Floortank]

After having been here since June or July I can say this is the biggest lie that this game's player base tells and I am sick of it. This entire problem is promoted by the heavy handedness of this games harassment policies, making it impossible to have fights and arguments in a attempt to resolve problems that instead encourages passive aggressive behavior that is just as detrimental if not worse. At least when there is fights and arguments people know where another stands, what the problem is instead of attempting to ghost and being child like. If someone has done something wrong, no matter how petty one may perceive it no one is allowed to be critical.

I am absolutely disgusted, and I hate this concept of people wanting to talk, be social and make friends one minute but without warning having done nothing people suddenly refuse to speak. It's flat out hypocritical and disingenuous.

It's hilarious to suggest that the game's policies are why people are cruel to each other.

You know, you can have an argument with someone right in the center of Limsa or your FC if you want, and not get punished. You don't have to be passive aggressive. Here, I'll show you.

You're wrong that SE policies have caused this because people were being explicitly rude as well as passive aggressive before this update to the "prohibited activities", and in other games I've played as well.

Challenging someone is not prohibited. How you challenge them and where you challenge them have become important.

I won't be penalized for arguing with you, for example, because I've been civil, direct, and I'm doing it in a public forum which is designed for debate.

Maybe if you can't make a suggestion that forms your counter argument to whatever error you think someone is making in a duty, you should find a different person to play with, someone who agrees with you. Calling someone out in the middle of a duty is not the way to do it, nor is it the place to do it, and nothing gets solved that way. It only happens that someone eventually gets shunned.

You can however, differ with people at the appropriate time and place, and with very direct words, if you make it clear that you are not attacking the person but merely their point of view.

[Kitsu]

Personally, I've only had a problem with a few close-knit FC groups that "gang up" on someone outside of their group. Once they get going, it's like a runaway train.

[Puremallace]

So let me get this straight. You and the 15 people that upvoted you prefer to argue like children over the internet on anonymous accounts and YOU SERIOUSLY think that will lead a positive outcome? lol

[Lium]

So let me get this straight. You and the 15 people that upvoted you prefer to argue like children over the internet on anonymous accounts and YOU SERIOUSLY think that will lead a positive outcome? lol

Yeah, I'm genuinely confused by the OP and some of the comments here. I've never experienced any toxicity in the three years I've been playing this game as my main. Not saying it doesn't exist. Just that I've never personally encountered it. But then again, I think someone else nailed it when they said it depends on the brand of toxicity or how someone views toxic behavior. Someone mentioned "casualism" as toxic. Others have mentioned creepy DMs. While others have mentioned having a very large blacklist. My definition of toxic tends to be very narrow. Like, the stuff I saw while playing WoW or Overwatch. Stuff that would get you banned in probably any other game. Like the deluge of racist/sexist/homophobic slurs I would see.

I've just never experienced any of that here. But I also basically behave the same way in-game that I do in real life: I keep to myself and mind my own business. And I honestly don't care what anyone else is doing unless it directly impacts me.

[Floortank]

To the people suggesting that the game is no better than others, that the community is just afraid of being punished... I think that's a jaundiced point of view.

The community is a reflection of the attitudes of the developers. This community is influenced by the models of humility and group cohesion that are set forth by the production of XIV. They have brought us in under a message of unity. They have given us an in-depth story. These are two metrics that, if you overlook their impact on a gaming culture, you are are either showing your bias or showing your ignorance.

Nextly, people in this game value their accounts well before the TOS was clarified; they generally go about in behavior because they want to be model citizens. Some people are simply like that, believe it or not. Some people are not inclined to sit around thinking of how to break the rules, but rather how to follow them. Shocking to some to read this, I know!

The final major aspect to why this community is better than the others, is because our characters and our time in this game has actual value. Unlike people who have wasted nearly two decades farming a trash fire game by a company whose developers constantly sow deliberate turmoil in their audience, this game has value. A large swath of the rule-following community of this game feels deeply invested in their character, their glamours, their progress. The many thousands of instances of cleared content. It's not work nor progress they want to lose. They did the mental calculation to be good citizens and not put all of the things that make them happy at risk many years ago, well before the rules were clarified.

If a game is fun, and the developers desire unity and harmony in a community, there will be a noteworthy difference in the overall happiness and tolerance in the community.

FFXIV is legendary for being extremely less toxic than other large games. It is one of the first things every major pundit to jump over from WOW has noticed about it.

Yes, there are toxic people everywhere. So what? FFXIV hits different, and the proof is in all of the media talking about how it hits different.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Yes, there are toxic people everywhere. So what? FFXIV hits different, and the proof is in all of the media talking about how it hits different.

People need to stop acting like there are no toxic elements, or that the toxic elements "aren't part of our community". That's what.

The lack of addressing the rampant passive aggression and incredibly immature behavior people from all parts of the game display does nothing to resolve those elements, and instead lets them fester and grow. An overwhelming majority of any MMO will be nice, wholesome folks - people need to stop acting like XIV is the only one out there.

It literally reinforces the fact there's an issue, rather than assuage doubts about it.