So... Is Lahabrea REALLY dead-dead?

[TheMightyMollusk]

I'm hoping he's gone, because dragging him back three expansions later feels like an ass pull. We don't need another Zenos refusing to die.

[filkry]

It's kind of wild how all 3 of the unsundered could reasonably be alive.

Lahabrea was not trapped in auracite before being destroyed, but perhaps was able to reside in the eye.
Emet-Selch broke his auracite prison moments before death, and could theoretically have fled to the void.
Elidibus was imprisoned in an aether receptacle (CT) but was not then destroyed with a concentrated blast of aether.

I lean strongly towards Elidibus being very much alive, though not the other two.

[atheistcanuck]

I mean Emet-Selch literally lingers to talk to us, and then shows up again in 5.3. Also he has unusual mastery over the Lifestream. I think he's 'dead' but also expect him to show up again in EW, temporarily. I think he chose to 'die'.
Elidibus could theoretically return but idk if they will go there.
Lahabrea is the big question mark.

[filkry]

Yeah, the life stream certainly throws a wrench into definitions of dead. How different is returning to the void versus the lifesteam for an Ascian? Especially if we’re going where I think we’re going in EW.

[atheistcanuck]

Yeah, the life stream certainly throws a wrench into definitions of dead. How different is returning to the void versus the lifesteam for an Ascian? Especially if we’re going where I think we’re going in EW.

for most Ascians I think ending up in the Lifestream is game over (for that version of them in the case of the Sundered) but Emet-Selch is named after the God of the Underworld for a REASON.

[Jojoya]

for most Ascians I think ending up in the Lifestream is game over (for that version of them in the case of the Sundered) but Emet-Selch is named after the God of the Underworld for a REASON.

Except we know that there is also rebirth after entering the lifestream. It's the same soul, lacking memories but those can be restored.

I wonder how many people are catching the significance of Emet's voiceover in the launch trailer when he says "Treasure every moment, every step of your descent, and there in the depths where souls and stars rest, find your truth." He's not talking about stars in the sky (we would have to ascend to find those, not descend). He's probably talking about preserved memories, like those we collected in Amaurot in 5.3.

Also may pay to remember that those collected stars (except Azem's) were gathered up by Elidibus at the end and appeared to be drawn with him into the Tower. I don't think that's pertinent to 6.0 but it may be important to story in the future.

This is interesting! Thank you for the link.

What she is describing with the Eye is definitely a retcon. The death of Lahabrea has been referred to by both Emet-Selch and Elidibus in light of the permanent and irreversible death of Nabriales. If he was merely trapped in an auracite (or in this case, the Eye) they would not have said the various things they said about his demise, or spoke of him with such finality and regret.

This makes me think a pretty crazy idea. This actually explains some things I had been wondering about...

It's not necessarily a retcon.

From their perspective, he disappeared. I don't think they know what exactly transpired there. His "final" death might have been an assumption on their part when he did not reappear. It could be that the amount of aether concentrated within the Eye was so vast that Emet wouldn't be able to sense Lahabrea's soul within it. Elidibus wouldn't know either way, he was not sensitive to souls. He would rely on what Emet told him.

[filkry]

Except we know that there is also rebirth after entering the lifestream. It's the same soul, lacking memories but those can be restored.

I wonder how many people are catching the significance of Emet's voiceover in the launch trailer when he says "Treasure every moment, every step of your descent, and there in the depths where souls and stars rest, find your truth." He's not talking about stars in the sky (we would have to ascend to find those, not descend). He's probably talking about preserved memories, like those we collected in Amaurot in 5.3.

Also may pay to remember that those collected stars (except Azem's) were gathered up by Elidibus at the end and appeared to be drawn with him into the Tower. I don't think that's pertinent to 6.0 but it may be important to story in the future.

I think his voiceover is specifically referring to us going into the aetherial sea/lifestream. Especially since the preceding lines talk about how everything comes to an end. I admit the stars part requires a little new lore or malleability to fit it (do stars go to the lifestream when they die? perhaps the rejoined shards' aether used it as a conduit to the source?). But otherwise, the VO fits a journey into the aetherial sea.

I think this is also the true meaning of "Endwalker". When taken in the context of the launch trailer VO, we will literally be walking where all things go when they end.

Plenty of opportunity for writers to punch us in the feelings with the resting souls of our departed friends and enemies (Lahabrea included?) there, as well.

[Cleretic]

Except we know that there is also rebirth after entering the lifestream. It's the same soul, lacking memories but those can be restored.

Minor reminder: Those probably can't be restored anymore. At least, not without immense difficulty. We trashed the soul crystals by throwing them into the First's Crystal Tower with Elidibus; whether that's salvageable or not is still an open question, but it's an open question that hasn't been asked in-universe, which leads me to assume we probably aren't meant to be asking it ourselves.

That leaves restoring it in the way Mitron did with Loghrif, but that seems considerably slower, as well as much more prone to interference by someone like the WoL. (And also much more painful for the target, but I don't think the Ascians care.)

EDIT: And it might also be worth noting: if we can trust the Eden questline, it takes roughly 80-something years for a soul to be reincarnated, without factoring in aging. So realistically, even if, say, Pashtarot wants to uplift Nabriales again, they're gonna be waiting a while.

[Veloran]

EDIT: And it might also be worth noting: if we can trust the Eden questline, it takes roughly 80-something years for a soul to be reincarnated, without factoring in aging. So realistically, even if, say, Pashtarot wants to uplift Nabriales again, they're gonna be waiting a while.

Gaia could have reincarnated multiple times in that period. Assuming that Ryne is a shard of Minfilia (as it is heavily implied), she reincarnated many times in that same span.

[atheistcanuck]

my theory is that we will die temporarily, do...something important within the Lifestream, and then get boosted back out by Emet-Selch.