So... Is Lahabrea REALLY dead-dead?

[atheistcanuck]

Yeah, the life stream certainly throws a wrench into definitions of dead. How different is returning to the void versus the lifesteam for an Ascian? Especially if we’re going where I think we’re going in EW.

for most Ascians I think ending up in the Lifestream is game over (for that version of them in the case of the Sundered) but Emet-Selch is named after the God of the Underworld for a REASON.

[Jojoya]

for most Ascians I think ending up in the Lifestream is game over (for that version of them in the case of the Sundered) but Emet-Selch is named after the God of the Underworld for a REASON.

Except we know that there is also rebirth after entering the lifestream. It's the same soul, lacking memories but those can be restored.

I wonder how many people are catching the significance of Emet's voiceover in the launch trailer when he says "Treasure every moment, every step of your descent, and there in the depths where souls and stars rest, find your truth." He's not talking about stars in the sky (we would have to ascend to find those, not descend). He's probably talking about preserved memories, like those we collected in Amaurot in 5.3.

Also may pay to remember that those collected stars (except Azem's) were gathered up by Elidibus at the end and appeared to be drawn with him into the Tower. I don't think that's pertinent to 6.0 but it may be important to story in the future.

This is interesting! Thank you for the link.

What she is describing with the Eye is definitely a retcon. The death of Lahabrea has been referred to by both Emet-Selch and Elidibus in light of the permanent and irreversible death of Nabriales. If he was merely trapped in an auracite (or in this case, the Eye) they would not have said the various things they said about his demise, or spoke of him with such finality and regret.

This makes me think a pretty crazy idea. This actually explains some things I had been wondering about...

It's not necessarily a retcon.

From their perspective, he disappeared. I don't think they know what exactly transpired there. His "final" death might have been an assumption on their part when he did not reappear. It could be that the amount of aether concentrated within the Eye was so vast that Emet wouldn't be able to sense Lahabrea's soul within it. Elidibus wouldn't know either way, he was not sensitive to souls. He would rely on what Emet told him.

[filkry]

Except we know that there is also rebirth after entering the lifestream. It's the same soul, lacking memories but those can be restored.

I wonder how many people are catching the significance of Emet's voiceover in the launch trailer when he says "Treasure every moment, every step of your descent, and there in the depths where souls and stars rest, find your truth." He's not talking about stars in the sky (we would have to ascend to find those, not descend). He's probably talking about preserved memories, like those we collected in Amaurot in 5.3.

Also may pay to remember that those collected stars (except Azem's) were gathered up by Elidibus at the end and appeared to be drawn with him into the Tower. I don't think that's pertinent to 6.0 but it may be important to story in the future.

I think his voiceover is specifically referring to us going into the aetherial sea/lifestream. Especially since the preceding lines talk about how everything comes to an end. I admit the stars part requires a little new lore or malleability to fit it (do stars go to the lifestream when they die? perhaps the rejoined shards' aether used it as a conduit to the source?). But otherwise, the VO fits a journey into the aetherial sea.

I think this is also the true meaning of "Endwalker". When taken in the context of the launch trailer VO, we will literally be walking where all things go when they end.

Plenty of opportunity for writers to punch us in the feelings with the resting souls of our departed friends and enemies (Lahabrea included?) there, as well.

[Cleretic]

Except we know that there is also rebirth after entering the lifestream. It's the same soul, lacking memories but those can be restored.

Minor reminder: Those probably can't be restored anymore. At least, not without immense difficulty. We trashed the soul crystals by throwing them into the First's Crystal Tower with Elidibus; whether that's salvageable or not is still an open question, but it's an open question that hasn't been asked in-universe, which leads me to assume we probably aren't meant to be asking it ourselves.

That leaves restoring it in the way Mitron did with Loghrif, but that seems considerably slower, as well as much more prone to interference by someone like the WoL. (And also much more painful for the target, but I don't think the Ascians care.)

EDIT: And it might also be worth noting: if we can trust the Eden questline, it takes roughly 80-something years for a soul to be reincarnated, without factoring in aging. So realistically, even if, say, Pashtarot wants to uplift Nabriales again, they're gonna be waiting a while.

[Veloran]

EDIT: And it might also be worth noting: if we can trust the Eden questline, it takes roughly 80-something years for a soul to be reincarnated, without factoring in aging. So realistically, even if, say, Pashtarot wants to uplift Nabriales again, they're gonna be waiting a while.

Gaia could have reincarnated multiple times in that period. Assuming that Ryne is a shard of Minfilia (as it is heavily implied), she reincarnated many times in that same span.

[Layte_Aeon]

Minfillia never reincarnated though. She possessed others, much like the Ascians do, until she eventually allowed herself to be subsumed into Ryne. Gaia however was dispersed into the lifestream to reincarnate naturally. Besides if Gaia did reincarnate other times it seems strange for Mitron to not mention so, given that he can communicate with her on some minor level, even while stuck as Eden.

[Veloran]

Minfillia never reincarnated though. She possessed others, much like the Ascians do, until she eventually allowed herself to be subsumed into Ryne. Gaia however was dispersed into the lifestream to reincarnate naturally. Besides if Gaia did reincarnate other times it seems strange for Mitron to not mention so, given that he can communicate with her on some minor level, even while stuck as Eden.

Minfilia, no. "The Minfilias", aka Ryne, seemingly so. It appears as though Minfilia only ever possessed the shard of herself as she was reborn, hence the girls being found as children and growing up as Minfilia. And then when she was "subsumed into Ryne", that was a rejoining, we can hardly consider it any other sort of mechanism.

As for Gaia, we neither know the way in which that was possible for Mitron nor if he even did. A lot changes on the First in the 5.0 storyline and we only interact with Mitron so much, him not mentioning something isn't evidence either way.

[Cleretic]

Gaia could have reincarnated multiple times in that period. Assuming that Ryne is a shard of Minfilia (as it is heavily implied), she reincarnated many times in that same span.

I assume this didn't happen, because if it did he wouldn't have lost. He wants Loghrif back and was doing the whole 'fairy voice' thing to do it. The WoL and Ryne were the only real reason that failed, so we can reasonably assume that if he was able to try earlier than with Gaia, he could've awoken Loghrif way earlier and we wouldn't have even had a Gaia.