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  1. #1
    Player
    forumaccount's Avatar
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    Nov 2020
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    Character
    Oneiron Tantalus
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80

    Such devastation... this was NOT my intention...

    TL;DR: if you feel like this post devalues your time, then I promise you won't appreciate the upcoming housing system purchasing mechanic.

    I recently posted here requesting that SE improve the housing purchasing mechanic. Boy, did they drop the ball.

    To clarify, I'm not delusional enough to believe that they viewed my post. I'm just framing the existential dread.

    I requested that they implement a weighted lottery for house purchasing. I detailed the suggested solution explicitly and debated its merits for much longer than I should have.

    To everyone's surprise, they've announced a lottery system (one drastically different from what I suggested; but that's irrelevant). As per the norm, they've detailed some alarmingly miserable design choices.

    The point of improving the house purchasing mechanic is to respect the user's time.
    What they've announced will only create a more convoluted system, that is still wasteful to player time investment, and even more so removes any sense of agency in the house purchasing process.

    Character length maxed out. Post continued in comments below:
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    forumaccount's Avatar
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    Nov 2020
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    Character
    Oneiron Tantalus
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Let's dig in:

    1. The lottery system they've announced isn't weighted. If you thought it was difficult to get a plot now, have fun being lost in the new system. Your time investment, the time spent to earn the gil and the time spent in the lottery system (counting consecutive lottery's here; as you will lose) will not be compensated in any way, and will only be further trivialized by their other design decisions here. Assuming the roll will be purely random, your chances of winning will only be limited by the amount of users signing up for a plot ( and there will be plenty ). This will leave many players stuck in the lottery loop for a long time. Under the current system, the time you spend at the plot actually increases your chances (albeit, you are unable to play the game [which as I've stated before was the main issue with the current system; but STILL your chances were weighted by time; thereby involving SOME player agency]).

    2. The lottery process for individual plots will take DAYS. (WHY???) The window for plot availability was already a lengthy one in the current system. According to the latest devlog, it will take days for a plot to pop in the new lottery system. Why? There's no feasible technical reason. It's just another arbitrary trivialization of player time.

    3. You're locked in to a plot once you submit your gil. (WHY???) To prevent foul play? What logical foul play does this prevent... I understand the decision to limit a player to one plot lottery per time. But why would they be unable to withdraw their participation at any point before the winner announcement? They're forcing players to commit their real world time investment, that has already consisted of days, into a decision that will take DAYS. Why would players be arbitrarily denied flexibility in such a decision? How sadistically do they want this process to mimic reality?
    (3)
    Last edited by forumaccount; 11-09-2021 at 01:56 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Fyce's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    1,755
    Character
    Fyce Alvey
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    1. The lottery system they've announced isn't weighted. If you thought it was difficult to get a plot now, have fun being lost in the new system. Your time investment, the time spent to earn the gil and the time spent in the lottery system (counting consecutive lottery's here; as you will lose) will not be compensated in any way, and will only be further trivialized by their other design decisions here. Assuming the roll will be purely random, your chances of winning will only be limited by the amount of users signing up for a plot ( and there will be plenty ). This will leave many players stuck in the lottery loop for a long time. Under the current system, the time you spend at the plot actually increases your chances (albeit, you are unable to play the game [which as I've stated before was the main issue with the current system; but STILL your chances were weighted by time; thereby involving SOME player agency]).
    You are currently competing against bots and autoclickers, having to invest hours of active time just to get a chance at clicking faster than an automated software. You're already more likely to lose, and also lose every active hours you had to put in.
    At least, the new lottery system only requires a few minutes of active time for you to participate in, and then forget about it until it's time to claim your Gil back and try for a new spot.

    Yes, some people will be unlucky and won't get a house. But that's bound to happen with literally every system until there's enough houses for everyone. Even a weighted lottery.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    2. The lottery process for individual plots will take DAYS. (WHY???) The window for plot availability was already a lengthy one in the current system. According to the latest devlog, it will take days for a plot to pop in the new lottery system. Why? There's no feasible technical reason. It's just another arbitrary trivialization of player time.
    To prevent people being in a rush, while also making sure that everyone who participate for a plot is commited.
    Let's also mention the fact that it makes less attractive spots more desirable, as less people will participate on them because of the high commitment required to participate in a lottery. That gives less picky players a better chance at getting a house if they don't care which spot to aim for.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    3. You're locked in to a plot once you submit your gil. (WHY???) To prevent foul play? What logical foul play does this prevent... I understand the decision to limit a player to one plot lottery per time. But why would they be unable to withdraw their participation at any point before the winner announcement? They're forcing players to commit their real world time investment, that has already consisted of days, into a decision that will take DAYS. Why would players be arbitrarily denied flexibility in such a decision? How sadistically do they want this process to mimic reality?
    One lottery per player is to make everyone on the same level in terms of chances. It's also to make people commited to a plot.
    The reason why you cannot withdraw is again for the commitment you take by making that decision, but more importantly to avoid multiple players participating just to scare competition away, only to withdraw at the last second because their objective was only to help one single friend to get that spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    4. They've stated that they're still debating the decision to implement a lottery system, and that they will have the option to assign it individually per ward. If you didn't need any more confirmation that this is a flaccid, un-thought out decision, here it is. They've literally put design decisions, that influence the gating of arguably one of the best systems in the game behind a monumental time investment, on the backburner and have simply made last minute concessions. Completely unacceptable.
    It's clearly not a system designed in a hurry. It prevents a lot of what makes the current system bad (house flipping, RMT, unfair advantages, etc.).
    The only reason why they are thinking about not implementing it to all wards is simply because they are wondering if they want everyone to be on an equal footing, or if it would be beneficial to keep the unbalanced system for the people who enjoy it.
    The lottery would then become the "last chance" system that would still allow a few to get a shot at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    5. The final and most egregious decision imho, is that home owners will be unable to bypass the housing timer with relocation as per the launch of 6.0. What. WHY???. Why arbitrarily penalize already existing home owners! The decision to relocate doesn't lower the housing supply... It is used much less for house flipping vs. FC ownership.... Why throw this nonsensical decision in? Not all organized house purchasing is detrimental to the community. What of friends and guildmates who want to be neighbors? No more. Just an absurd limitation, inconsequential to the root problem.
    Bypassing the timer by relocating allows you to buy a house just to relocate. It's basically an exploit of the system that doesn't really make any sense in a design perspective.
    Also, the relocation bypass gives house owners an advantage above people who don't have a house. So, if you don't have a house... well, you don't have a house, but ontop of that, someone who is already priviledged can snatch a spot you were looking forward to try to get. How much more miserable do you want people without a house to be?
    Keeping that unfair system just for the few people who want to be neightbors is detrimental to a majority of unfortunate homeless players.
    Just be happy to at least have a house when hundreds of players don't.
    (4)
    Last edited by Fyce; 11-09-2021 at 07:31 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    1,792
    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    3. You're locked in to a plot once you submit your gil. (WHY???) To prevent foul play? What logical foul play does this prevent... I understand the decision to limit a player to one plot lottery per time. But why would they be unable to withdraw their participation at any point before the winner announcement? They're forcing players to commit their real world time investment, that has already consisted of days, into a decision that will take DAYS. Why would players be arbitrarily denied flexibility in such a decision? How sadistically do they want this process to mimic reality?
    To prevent to the following scenario:

    Player A bids on an empty plot.
    Players A get 20 of his friends to to also bid on the plot.
    Player B sees 20 people already signed up and moves on to find something less contested.
    Player A's friends retract their bids right before the timer ends.
    Player A wins the lottery unopposed.
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Ronduwil's Avatar
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    May 2019
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    Texas
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Ronduwil Thaliakson
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    Your time investment, the time spent to earn the gil and the time spent in the lottery system (counting consecutive lottery's here; as you will lose) will not be compensated in any way, and will only be further trivialized by their other design decisions here.
    I think you've misunderstood their intent in respecting our time. The old system had you standing at a sign post for hours repeatedly clicking. This is the time investment that they're eliminating. The time spent earning gill isn't wasted. There are plenty of fun ways to make gil. If you choose to make the process unfun for yourself, then I don't know what to tell you. Clicking at a sign post wasn't fun. Earning gil is fine. Clicking at a sign post was an onerous job that came with an opportunity cost. Entering a random drawing has almost no opportunity cost. By all objective measures, this is a far better system for the vast majority of FFXIV players.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    2. The lottery process for individual plots will take DAYS. (WHY???)
    It takes days because not everyone can log in every single day. This gives everyone who wants a shot at getting a plot a chance to throw their hat into the ring. I don't understand this notion that it's trivializing player time. Unlike the old system, you don't have to stand in a single spot waiting for the lottery to pop. You get to buy your ticket and move on. It doesn't matter whether it takes three hours, three days, or three weeks because you're not bound to one spot for that entire time. You get to proceed with all the other activities that the game has to offer. In this respect, the new system respects your time far better than the current one does.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    3. You're locked in to a plot once you submit your gil. (WHY???) To prevent foul play? What logical foul play does this prevent... I understand the decision to limit a player to one plot lottery per time. But why would they be unable to withdraw their participation at any point before the winner announcement?
    You admitted that you know why each player is limited to one plot at a time. I agree that the inability to withdraw participation is frustrating. Maybe it was an oversight, or maybe they wanted you to be really really sure that the plot you were bidding on was the one that you actually wanted before placing your bid and potentially depriving another player of a plot that they really liked. I personally think we should be allowed to withdraw bids. I can definitely sympathize with you on this one.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    forumaccount's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
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    63
    Character
    Oneiron Tantalus
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    4. They've stated that they're still debating the decision to implement a lottery system, and that they will have the option to assign it individually per ward. If you didn't need any more confirmation that this is a flaccid, un-thought out decision, here it is. They've literally put design decisions, that influence the gating of arguably one of the best systems in the game behind a monumental time investment, on the backburner and have simply made last minute concessions. Completely unacceptable.

    5. The final and most egregious decision imho, is that home owners will be unable to bypass the housing timer with relocation as per the launch of 6.0. What. WHY???. Why arbitrarily penalize already existing home owners! The decision to relocate doesn't lower the housing supply... It is used much less for house flipping vs. FC ownership.... Why throw this nonsensical decision in? Not all organized house purchasing is detrimental to the community. What of friends and guildmates who want to be neighbors? No more. Just an absurd limitation, inconsequential to the root problem.
    (3)
    Last edited by forumaccount; 11-09-2021 at 10:39 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    2. The lottery process for individual plots will take DAYS. (WHY???) The window for plot availability was already a lengthy one in the current system. According to the latest devlog, it will take days for a plot to pop in the new lottery system. Why? There's no feasible technical reason. It's just another arbitrary trivialization of player time.
    It's likely to allow more people to join in the lottery if they want to and reduce the chance of someone vacating a plot at odd hours for specific people.

    3. You're locked in to a plot once you submit your gil. (WHY???) To prevent foul play? What logical foul play does this prevent... I understand the decision to limit a player to one plot lottery per time. But why would they be unable to withdraw their participation at any point before the winner announcement? They're forcing players to commit their real world time investment, that has already consisted of days, into a decision that will take DAYS. Why would players be arbitrarily denied flexibility in such a decision? How sadistically do they want this process to mimic reality?
    It's likely to prevent people from artificially increasing the number of participants in order to deter others from joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    5. The final and most egregious decision imho, is that home owners will be unable to bypass the housing timer with relocation as per the launch of 6.0. What. WHY???. Why arbitrarily penalize already existing home owners! The decision to relocate doesn't lower the housing supply... It is used much less for house flipping vs. FC ownership.... Why throw this nonsensical decision in? Not all organized house purchasing is detrimental to the community. What of friends and guildmates who want to be neighbors? No more. Just an absurd limitation, inconsequential to the root problem.
    Being penalized is to be put at a disadvantage, but that's not what's happening here. They're just removing an advantage. And people who already have a house do not need that advantage compared to others who don't have a house.

    Also, this might reduce the likelihood of people buying random houses just so they can instantly relocate, which would leave their old house unclaimed again when there might have been others who wanted that specific house.
    (9)

  8. #8
    Player
    forumaccount's Avatar
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    Nov 2020
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    63
    Character
    Oneiron Tantalus
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    It's likely to allow more people to join in the lottery if they want to and reduce the chance of someone vacating a plot at odd hours for specific people.

    It's likely to prevent people from artificially increasing the number of participants in order to deter others from joining.

    Being penalized is to be put at a disadvantage, but that's not what's happening here. They're just removing an advantage. And people who already have a house do not need that advantage compared to others who don't have a house.

    Also, this might reduce the likelihood of people buying random houses just so they can instantly relocate, which would leave their old house unclaimed again when there might have been others who wanted that specific house.
    Responding to the points as they were originally numbered (I appreciate you actually using the quotes as citations):

    2. The current lifecycle of a plot is plenty time for people to sign up, as has been demonstrated by the current system. As for the alleged second reason, I wouldn't believe that to be an issue even at the current lifecycle of a ward, and if so it would be negligible and not outway the manufactured inconvenience of a days long lotto process.

    3. Again, a negligible issue that would hardly be prevented by this arbitration if the alleged issue were the reason for it. As a tangential thought, a weighted lotto would naturally ease this issue.

    5. It's illogical to compare homeowners as being advantaged or disadvantaged when compared to first time buyers. They're in a completely different category, as the homeowner doesn't affect the housing supply save for vacating a plot. Yes, homeowners should have the ability to relocate without engaging in the first time plot purchasing process, because their decision to do so is inconsequential to the housing supply and the first time buyer's experience. Funny you would mention getting a specific house, because no one is getting a specific house under the current system, or at least the chances of them getting their desired house are obviously all but gone due to the removal of relocation.
    (0)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumaccount View Post
    Responding to the points as they were originally numbered (I appreciate you actually using the quotes as citations):

    2. The current lifecycle of a plot is plenty time for people to sign up, as has been demonstrated by the current system. As for the alleged second reason, I wouldn't believe that to be an issue even at the current lifecycle of a ward, and if so it would be negligible and not outway the manufactured inconvenience of a days long lotto process.

    3. Again, a negligible issue that would hardly be prevented by this arbitration if the alleged issue were the reason for it. As a tangential thought, a weighted lotto would naturally ease this issue.
    Well, those are my guesses. Maybe they have the data that show otherwise. And considering you are not forced to interact with the placard continuously, I think several days is a fine tradeoff of having more people be able to make their decisions on whether to go for a house, regardless of whether the current timeline is sufficient.

    5. It's illogical to compare homeowners as being advantaged or disadvantaged when compared to first time buyers. They're in a completely different category, as the homeowner doesn't affect the housing supply save for vacating a plot. Yes, homeowners should have the ability to relocate without engaging in the first time plot purchasing process, because their decision to do so is inconsequential to the housing supply and the first time buyer's experience. Funny you would mention getting a specific house, because no one is getting a specific house under the current system, or at least the chances of them getting their desired house are obviously all but gone due to the removal of relocation.
    The advantage is in being able to purchase a house directly. And with a limited supply, current homeowners are already at an advantage of having a house, so they do not need the extra advantage of being able to get a new house without going through the RNG.

    With the lottery system, you are still choosing a specific house. You may not get your first choice, but that's never a guarantee where there is competition over limited resources. Even with relocation, it still depends on availability and timing.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    forumaccount's Avatar
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    Nov 2020
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    63
    Character
    Oneiron Tantalus
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    I will concede, this is one step in the right direction AND two steps backwards. RMT is negligibly being curbed, and the problem of placard spamming is solved... and being replaced by more arbitration, less agency, and an even greater overall time investment in the system. Heckin' why.

    At this point, I'm not surprised. Many assumed a lotto system would be a bandaid fix, and given the way they're haphazardly implementing the system it's even worse than that. All this, for a system that is arbitrarily gated by designed exclusivity, one that could easily be remedied by a dynamically allocated neighborhood system. There is no feasible technical reason or limitation for everyone in the game not to be able to purchase a house in a shared neighborhood, other than incompetence (or sadism).

    This is the quality product that you're receiving after having been charged a retail box price, a sub fee, and absorbent micro-transaction fees for cost-less services.

    What do we have to look forward to though? Why, the latest, greatest expansion featuring more content gated behind gofer quests, talking head slice of life cut-scenes using in game emotes, and (a crowd favorite!) aether currents.

    Abysmal.
    (1)
    Last edited by forumaccount; 11-09-2021 at 10:41 AM.

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