Please limit FC to 1 entry per lottery.

[NyannCat]

So your argument is if large FCs don't get their way they'll exploit the system? Weird counter argument there. Doesn't change my opinion either. 1 ticket per FC, regardless of size.

Hey Jojoya, remember when you asked me why I felt freshly created FCs shouldn't be allowed to purchase a plot right away? This is why. People will always think they'r'e entitled to exploit loopholes.

"So your argument is if large FCs don't get their way they'll exploit the system? Weird counter argument there."

Well, yes, but this is not an exploit issue. It's basically just manpower. A big FC is basically just lots of smaller FCs clumped into one, in terms of size. Splitting them up is basically just adjusting their sizes to compete fair and square against "smaller, more intimate" FCs. There is no reason a bigger FC wouldn't split up to have more chances, since they have absolutely no reason for staying in their original state when hunting for houses.
You're trying to impose a handicap for them while also getting mad if I say they would try to find solutions for it, lol.

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Anyway, my fc is small, dude. And it is exactly because it's small that I think this is not a very smart idea. My small FC can still compete with any big FC in my server just the way it is, since it's just a matter of gil, which I can basically just farm. No need to recruit more people.
The only one thing a large FC can have more than my small FC can is members. And members are exactly what gives you an advantage when you consider that 1-ticket-per-fc is easily exploitable by just splitting up the big fc.

One ticket per fc is one of those ideas that, at a first glance looks great, but it's just not.
It's not that people feel entitled. It's just how it is.

People will always find a way to exploit it, just like they used to do with auto-clickers for placards.
What I'm suggesting is that this idea would make it worse for smaller FCs to compete, since they could only get 1 ticket in any circumstance, while a split-up big fc could buy multiple.

remember why I felt freshly created FCs shouldn't be allowed to purchase a plot right away?

What is a freshly created FC? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months?
They can just make alts, start fcs and leave them hanging for months until they can start using them for tickets.

[Random0]

If an FC has enough gil to enter multiple lotteries and has enough members who are both trustworthy enough to have the requisite gil to enter multiple lotteries, then they do so at their own risk. First they risk millions of gil hoping their extra lottery bodies don't just run off with the gil or use it for their own personal houses, and Second they risk winning multiple lotteries and then having to forfeit 50% of the cost of each winning lottery they choose not to claim.

Larger FCs will have greater resources to utilize towards claiming their preferred plot, and thus they will shoulder greater financial risk/burden in utilizing them.

[Nepentha]

Well, yes, but this is not an exploit issue. It's basically just manpower. A big FC is basically just lots of smaller FCs clumped into one, in terms of size. Splitting them up is basically just adjusting their sizes to compete fair and square against "smaller, more intimate" FCs. There is no reason a bigger FC wouldn't split up to have more chances, since they have absolutely no reason for staying in their original state when hunting for houses.
You're trying to impose a handicap for them while also getting mad if I say they would try to find solutions for it, lol.

___
Anyway, my fc is small, dude. And it is exactly because it's small that I think this is not a very smart idea. My small FC can still compete with any big FC in my server just the way it is, since it's just a matter of gil, which I can basically just farm. No need to recruit more people.
The only one thing a large FC can have more than my small FC can is members. And members are exactly what gives you an advantage when you consider that 1-ticket-per-fc is easily exploitable by just splitting up the big fc.

One ticket per fc is one of those ideas that, at a first glance looks great, but it's just not.
It's not that people feel entitled. It's just how it is.

People will always find a way to exploit it, just like they used to do with auto-clickers for placards.
What I'm suggesting is that this idea would make it worse for smaller FCs to compete, since they could only get 1 ticket in any circumstance, while a split-up big fc could buy multiple.


What is a freshly created FC? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months?
They can just make alts, start fcs and leave them hanging for months until they can start using them for tickets.

That's just... not a very compelling argument for why bigger FCs should be allowed to purchase more tickets though? Can you come up with a reason that isn't 'If you don't let them they'll just figure out a way to game the system'?

Tell you what. I'll be fine with bigger FCs being allowed to purchase more tickets, but if they win, they don't get back any deposits they made on the gil they used to buy those extra tickets. I think that's plenty fair for being allowed to steamroll over smaller FCs with numbers.

[Theodric]

Agreed.

A small, tight knit FC is no less valuable than a larger FC that simply invites anyone and everyone.

One entry per FC ensures that everybody is on a fair and level playing field. Multiple entries per FC risks allowing players with excess time and gil to find ways to game the system.

Let's not forget that these changes are going live in response to the existing system being abused. If the new system is abused, then it'll probably be changed anyway so it might as well be dealt with sooner rather than later.

[Jojoya]

The simplest programming path would be for one bid per fc. If it were more they'd either have to limit fc members to bidding on the same placard or create a whole procedure for sorting out which house an fc ends up with if members bid and win different plots.

I wouldn't be certain it's the simplest programming path. The game sometimes behaves in strange ways when it comes to tracking things.

Everything described so far has been done in terms of individual players taking action, whether for their personal use or for FC use. If the possession of an entry is being tracked at the personal level, they may not be able to prevent purchase of additional tickets on behalf of the FC. We'll have to wait and see how they've set it up to work.

If an FC has enough gil to enter multiple lotteries and has enough members who are both trustworthy enough to have the requisite gil to enter multiple lotteries, then they do so at their own risk. First they risk millions of gil hoping their extra lottery bodies don't just run off with the gil or use it for their own personal houses, and Second they risk winning multiple lotteries and then having to forfeit 50% of the cost of each winning lottery they choose not to claim.

Larger FCs will have greater resources to utilize towards claiming their preferred plot, and thus they will shoulder greater financial risk/burden in utilizing them.

To add to this: something people forget is that FCs, large or small, don't really have any resources that belong to the FC until after a house has been purchased and the workshop established.

The game is really bad when it comes to providing ways for FCs to earn gil outside of having the workshop. The few items that can be purchased with company credits and sold on the marketboard don't amount to much because every FC trying to use up excess credits is selling those items. Net demand is low (outside of Voidrake and Althyk Lavender seeds) because most of those items are outdoor furnishings that few buy due to low item limits and lack of desirability. Also, newly formed FCs rarely have the excess credits to spare - they're reserving them to buy actions.

A large FC might ask members to donate gil toward a house purchase but that doesn't mean their members have it, or are willing to do so. Most of the time, it's an officer paying for the FC house out of their own pocket that may or may not get reimbursed later once the FC is making gil from the workshop.

FCs purchasing multiple tickets would also run into problem if they won multiple houses because only one can be purchased by the FC. That's potentially a lot of gil down the drain for the FC and its members.

Final thought - how many large FCs out there want a house but do not already have one? Large FCs don't tend to spring up overnight and there were 2 good opportunities for FCs to get houses during Shadowbringers.


Personally, I don't care which way the system goes though I think if the intent of the system to is try to give as many players access to a house as possible, then it makes more sense to give the large FCs more opportunities since more players would be served by a house. It still would not be a great advantage. I can't imagine even the largest FCs being able to put together enough gil for more than 4 or 5 entries on a small house. It's certainly not going to happen on any large houses available.

People will always think they'r'e entitled to exploit loopholes.

Yes, some people will. But that doesn't mean we should always punish everyone just to obstruct those who exploit. Most people have fair and honest intent.

Sometimes it's better to punish after the fact when the exploit is established so those who are fair and honest aren't negatively impacted.

I think the rules going into effect in 6.1 will curb a decent amount of the exploiting but only a fully instanced system can ever get rid of all of it.

[Nepentha]

Yes, some people will. But that doesn't mean we should always punish everyone just to obstruct those who exploit. Most people have fair and honest intent.

Sometimes it's better to punish after the fact when the exploit is established so those who are fair and honest aren't negatively impacted.

I think the rules going into effect in 6.1 will curb a decent amount of the exploiting but only a fully instanced system can ever get rid of all of it.

Except they have a proven track record of not punishing at all, before or after the fact.

I still maintain that 1 ticket per FC is a better rule. Larger FCs do not automatically = better FCs or more entitled FCs, nor does it guarantee the members of that FC actually get advantages beyond maybe being able to purchase an FC room. (And the only server atm where that would be a godsend is Balmung.) In fact, I would argue that the larger the FC the more likely members won't get any real advantage except maybe being allowed to purchase an FC room. Usually it's the upper echelons of the FC that would get that advantage (the FC master and officers).

I've been in big FCs before (and had friends who experienced similar), where drama erupted and suddenly the FC master and/or officers basically booted everyone out and kept the house for themselves. Everyone (including me) lost their decorated FC rooms. (This was a time before apartments.) Like seriously, I'd rather be in an FC like the relatively small one I'm in now. At least I know everyone, and we've been friends for years. Quality over quantity imho.

[ICountFrom0]

You don't have to ask this to change, that's already how it is.

Notice there's a change that FC's cannot give the "house purchase" permission to user levels anymore?
ONLY the owner of the FC can attempt to buy a house for it.

Closed issue.

[NanaWiloh]

You don't have to ask this to change, that's already how it is.

Notice there's a change that FC's cannot give the "house purchase" permission to user levels anymore?
ONLY the owner of the FC can attempt to buy a house for it.

Closed issue.

Correction you wont be able to grant purchase permission or FC master to brand-new members. New FC memebers will likely have to be a member for 30 days or more before the permission can be granted.

[Kitsu]

I agree that any FC should only get one shot at a house.

Over the weekend, I've been seeing discussion of people spreading gil cap over several members in order to have the most chances at getting a house compared to the average "casual" FC. This is an unfair advantage over close-knit FC.

If anything, I think FC housing should be limited to established FCs on a similar timeframe to the new proposed FC housing privilege restrictions in order to help prevent account flipping for FC housing. E.g. players cannot use a brand new FC to enter a house lotto just like a new FC member will not be able to.

[Jojoya]

You don't have to ask this to change, that's already how it is.

Notice there's a change that FC's cannot give the "house purchase" permission to user levels anymore?
ONLY the owner of the FC can attempt to buy a house for it.

Closed issue.

No such change was mentioned. Do you have inside information that YoshiP didn't share during the Live Letter?

It's true that the "new member" restriction would prevent anyone in a new FC except the FC master from purchasing land at first but once the "new member" period of time has passed, others can be given the rank permission. That could potentially allow multiple members to attempt to purchase land on behalf of a FC depending on how FC entries are tracked.