Assize should have second charge

[Adeacia]

How?

You can get some heal value out of Assize by understanding whether the next raidwide will happen before Assize comes off cooldown or not, but you still have no control over whether mechanics will align with a 45 sec timer. If you hold it you lose dps. It's an impossible ability to gain full value from.

Simple. Whenever I use it, it does damage and gives me mp. As for the healing, I don't care if I don't use the skill instantly. You may have seen other posts I've made. In which case you'd know I could not care less about optimization of my dps as I play FF14, not spreadsheet simulator.

Do I dps as much as I can? Of course I do. I know for a fact my healer dps has helped parties beat the enrage timer. I just don't obsess over it since that only makes the game not fun, as these forums constantly prove. I don't have the problems I always see here.

[QooEr]

+1 for assize getting a charge.
all the people saying youd need to save it for raid buffs dont realize that, even if they were right, at worst the status quo wouldnt change. At best it makes assize an actually flexible and reliable ogcd heal.

Even if it has charges you will still be pressured to use it for damage in burst windows. It won't change anything except instead of every 45s you have to use it every 60/120s. That is just the flaw of having damage on healers. If it has damage you will always be forced to use it for dps

Except you wouldnt, if using assize for the healing saves resources for any healer. If you dont need the healing, then yes, it doesnt change anything, but whats the problem then if you didnt need the heal in the first place?

As sebazy pointed out, the cooldown of assize at 45s does not line up neatly with 120s at all. their cooldowns align every 300 seconds, so youll have plenty of spare charges for when those dont align because losing uses of assize over the course of the fight is bad and its the very reason why assize having a charge would improve the current situation.

If you wonder "well you can still have a charge line up with every trick attack window", then id tell you the net potency gain of using assize in trick attack is 20 potency. (400*0.05)

Which means that if assize's healing saves any healer any kind of damage resource, be it a gcd, aetherflow, or a lily, holding that charge of assize for damage wont be worth it. you can say you feel pressured to use it in raid buffs all you want, but the reality is that saving a gcd heal will always be a bigger gain.

And then, even when assize lines up with full raid buffs (trick+div+tech step), saving a gcd heal is still more important. The net potency gain of using two assizes in raid buffs is 134.92. (800*0.16865).
The opportunity cost is a bit higher than that of a lily or energy drain, but its still better to use assize over a non-lily gcd heal in that scenario.



The only scenario where the proposed change doesnt "fix" anything is in speedkills where both healers are using near 0 gcd heals. And i dare you tell me that even one fifth of the playerbase gets to that point.

[Liam_Harper]

I'm going off the mentality of keeping Assize on CD because of the MP restore, which could be a problem for WHM come EW. Being able to delay it for healing purposes would be helpful and I do admit to overreacting in my original post but I do feel that, unless something else is done to alleviate MP for WHM, a 2nd charge might not be able to serve its intended purpose of being used for healing.

Remember you aren't delaying overall usages, just when you use the second charge. As long as it doesn't cap at 2 charges, you don't lose any uses. For example currently in a 5 minute fight, you'd get 6 Assize uses. If it had 2 charges and you blew one at the start of the fight, then held and used the spare for healing (and used all charges before the boss died, you'd get 7 usages. So the charge system works out at a minor mana increase.

If in emergency you somehow ran out of MP entirely, you're still free to pop your spare charge you've been holding, for MP recovery. For example if you died, got raised and need to clutch recover the run. Without charges you might not have have that luxury since you blow it on cd for dps and don't have any spare charge. With charges you still have your spare 400 potency heal with free mana that you've been keeping handy.

Simple. Whenever I use it, it does damage and gives me mp. As for the healing, I don't care if I don't use the skill instantly. You may have seen other posts I've made. In which case you'd know I could not care less about optimization of my dps as I play FF14, not spreadsheet simulator.

That's fine, it's not mandatory to optimize. But technically speaking you aren't getting full value from Assize and even just admitted you don't care if you do or not. You either sacrifice dps by not using it instantly, or healing, by using it instantly. Whichever way you play, you lose something.

[Valmaxian]

This is a great idea!

[Adeacia]

That's fine, it's not mandatory to optimize. But technically speaking you aren't getting full value from Assize and even just admitted you don't care if you do or not. You either sacrifice dps by not using it instantly, or healing, by using it instantly. Whichever way you play, you lose something.

By full use, I mean the damage, the mp recovery and the healing. Everything the skill can do, I get the use of every time I use it. Hence, full use.

[NobleWinter]

The moment someone says, "I use Assize for damage" they would immediately be ruled out of the hearing to determine whether or not WHM actually needs this. There are a few reasons for this.

The first (remember I am posing as a dev in this scenario), I couldn't care less about your ability to do more damage. Second, the ability also restores HP to the group, and MP to self. I would need to know why you feel WHM also needs to have another charge for those resources. And last, if determined increased access to those resources is actually needed, then why it should come in the form of a second charge instead of just increasing how much it returns being that it is already on a 45s CD.

Then just for sport, I would probably ask why you feel Assize needs to cause damage at all, since your AoE is already covered with Holy 2, which also brings mitigation making it one of the most effective AoE abilities anyone has in the entire game with the GCD and your nigh-infinite MP pool as its only required resource. Then I would probably conclude by saying to just be thankful that you have it.

Who are you? Like seriously, are you a developer in disguise or just a player who thinks they've been ordained to speak on Yoshi P's behalf? The design team has made so many decisions over the years that seem to violate their own intended game philosophy. We just had a huge distinction declared about pure healers versus shield healers and yet pure healers all have shields (Divine Benison, Neutral Sect, etc) and shield healers have a wealth of direct heals and regens. Healer dps is supposed to be the last thing we worry about and yet every expansion they have made our dps potential greater and easier to obtain. As players we just aren't in position to speak for the design team. We can only voice our own opinions about the games current state and future direction. Please stop pretending to be some pseudo voice of reason from within the Square Enix headquarters. You've been right with some of your guesses in the past but they are still just guesses. Let's leave the heavy handed comments about people having their opinions ignored by the devs because they favor dps out of the conversation. You can't speak for what opinions they value or criticism they recieve. They literally tried to make Sage specifically to appeal to dps oriented healer players so its clear they value everyone and are simply struggling to accommodate us all.

[Semirhage]

This thread is such a goldmine. It's already been explained multiple times here: a second charge would mathematically change very little in the grand balancing scheme, since a second charge effectively means one more use over the course of an encounter. It would make its use as a healing ability more valuable, make its use as a damage spell more flexible than just blowing it on cooldown, etc.

And you'd think the Sylphie brigade would be keen on that, but ohhhhhhh no. STOP OPTIMIZING! SKILL IS BAD! EW GROSS ASSIZE SHOULDN'T BE IMPROVED AT ALL SINCE IT'S A YUCKY DAMAGE SPELL!

There's a population of players who hates the idea of anyone else enjoying the role, and it ain't veterans.

[KDSilver]

There's not much to debate.

Assize should definitly get a 2nd charge.

- Because of WHM few aoe oGCD capabiliy
- Because Assize is an awesome and versatile tool yet so rigid in its usage because of the short CD

[AnotherPerson]

I'm going off the mentality of keeping Assize on CD because of the MP restore, which could be a problem for WHM come EW. Being able to delay it for healing purposes would be helpful and I do admit to overreacting in my original post but I do feel that, unless something else is done to alleviate MP for WHM, a 2nd charge might not be able to serve its intended purpose of being used for healing.

People are literally saying it's not a fix to MP problem; it just makes the drawbacks of Assize easier to manage by not losing potential MP/damage/healing from not using the skill on cooldown.
You're going to get the same amount of MP restore regardless whether you use it at 1 charge or near 2 charges.

The way Assize with 2 charges work is that you get up to 1000 MP every 90 seconds.

At 0 charge(s) held, in 20 seconds, you have 0 stock of -500 MP- and 0 AoE heal saved up.
At 0 charge(s) held, in 45 seconds, you have 1 stock of -500 MP- and 1 AoE heal saved up, and the counter resets to 0 for the 2nd charge.
At 1 charge(s) held, in 75 seconds (30 seconds on 2nd charge), you still have 1 stock of -500 MP- and 1 AoE heal saved up.
At 1 charge(s) held, in 85 seconds (40 seconds on 2nd charge), you still have 1 stock of -500 MP- and 1 AoE heal saved up.
At 1 charge(s) held, in 90 seconds (45 seconds on 2nd charge), you have 2 stock of -500 MP- and 2 AoE heal saved up, and you hit the cap on charges.
At 2 charge(s) held, in 120 seconds (30 seconds on the 3rd charge), you have 2 stock of -500 MP- and 2 AoE heal saved up, but wasted 30/45 seconds on your 3rd charge.

However... if you use a charge of Assize within 90 seconds, then:

At 1 charge(s) held, in 120 seconds (30 seconds on 3nd charge), you still have 1 stock of -500 MP- and 1 AoE heal saved up.
At 1 charge(s) held, in 135 seconds (45 seconds on 3rd charge), you have 2 stock of -500 MP- and 2 AoE heal saved up, and then you hit cap on charges.

As you can see here, this allows you to delay your Assizes so you can also get the healing benefit of the skill without losing any MP from the skill itself as long as you use it within 90 seconds, and then another 45 seconds as long as you just use a charge within that timeframe, giving it a lot more flexibility. A 400 AOE heal is a free Medica/Afflatus Rapture without any cost, but this time you can actually guarantee it's used for healing within the timeframe.

Compare this to now:
At 0 charge held, in 20 seconds, you have 0 stock of -500 MP- and 0 AoE heal.
At 0 charge held, in 45 seconds, you have 1 stock of -500 MP- and 1 AoE heal.
At 1 charge held, in 75 seconds, you have 1 stock of -500 MP- and 1 AoE Heal, but you wasted 30/45 seconds on the 2nd charge.
At 1 charge held, in 90 seconds, you have 1 stock of -500 MP- and 1 AoE Heal, but you wasted 1 charge of Assize (-500 MP, -400 potency AoE Heal, -400 potency damage).

So you would have to use a charge immediately by 45 seconds and not hold it, or you lose MP, healing, and damage. If everyone is full HP and you use assize by 45 seconds, then you simply waste the healing portion, but you get the damage and MP back.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

Allow me to clarify my concern.

If EW comes out, and its exactly as we feared with WHM bottoming out of MP in the estimated 7+ minutes time and the only change that occurred was that Assize got a 2nd charge to it, than the change would be meaningless because we wouldn't be able to use it for healing since we need the MP more and continue to use Assize on CD due to that need. I'm not saying that Assize should be made the solution to the problem because its not. What I am saying is that the MP changes have kind of made me paranoid about what could happen is all.