Assize should have second charge

[Sebazy]

I am saying Assize is already a damn good ability on a 45 second CD that you have on top of Holy 2, which also brings a two-fold effect, yet my mentality is somehow "backwards"? Because I said, "no"? And I didn't even say, "no". I said tell me why you need it, and you chose to attack instead. Good job.

I chose to attack because you opened with about as pigheaded and stupid a comment as is possible:

The moment someone says, "I use Assize for damage" they would immediately be ruled out of the hearing to determine whether or not WHM actually needs this. There are a few reasons for this.

Ruling out an improvement to an ability that would allow someone to actually use it for something other than damage because you don't like the fact that they are currently using it for damage......

Backwards thinking 101.

And I didn't even say, "no". I said tell me why you need it, and you chose to attack instead. Good job.

Oh give me a break. This is just high and mighty rubbish. I've explained in far too much depth why this is a beneficial move to allow Assize to actually offer value as a healing ability rather than getting pressured into being spammed on cooldown for MP and damage in it's current form. Did you read any of that? Good job indeed.

[Gemina]

I chose to attack because you opened with about as pigheaded and stupid a comment as is possible:

You chose to attack because you're bitter, and can't actually answer my inquiry. That is after all, when anonymous internet warriors such as yourself go on the offensive.

Ruling out an improvement to an ability that would allow someone to actually use it for something other than damage because you don't like the fact that they are currently using it for damage......

I ruled it out because causing more damage is not a viable reason to give it 2 charges. Don't even say it will improve clear rates on relevant savage turns, and then tell me this...

Backwards thinking 101.

Oh give me a break. This is just high and mighty rubbish. I've explained in far too much depth why this is a beneficial move to allow Assize to actually offer value as a healing ability rather than getting pressured into being spammed on cooldown for MP and damage in it's current form. Did you read any of that? Good job indeed.

Call it what you wish. I am still waiting why Assize should get two charges. If you can think of something other than "muh deeps". I am all ears. I also can't think of any reason why you would want the additional charge for healing purposes either. MP? Possibly. But again, I can take care of that by increasing those potencies. I wouldn't have to give you another charge at all.

[Sebazy]

You chose to attack because you're bitter, and can't actually answer my inquiry. That is after all, when anonymous internet warriors such as yourself go on the offensive.

Nono, I go on the offensive when people rebuke interesting suggestions for completely inane reasons.

I ruled it out because causing more damage is not a viable reason to give it 2 charges. Don't even say it will improve clear rates on relevant savage turns, and then tell me this...

What?

Adding a second charge would be a great move as it'd help make assize quite a lot more flexible and versatile.

Sitting on a charge to use for as a healing oGCD wouldn't be a significant MP & DPS loss anymore (something which EW is going to make even more important).

It'd also allow WHMs to dump charges during DPS windows to help them keep up with the other healers a little better.

Sure, I mention that it'll be a minor boost to DPS through being able to better align it with raid buffs, but that's merely a foot note. The real gain here is that it'll allow a WHM to sit on a charge for up to 45 seconds offering the ability to align it with raidwide AoEs. Just imagine. Being able to actually use Assize as a HEAL without shooting yourself in the foot for MP and raid damage contribution. Put your hatred of any healer that dares to value their DPS aside for just a moment and soak that in. Assize.... As a legitimate powerful heal..... Whoa man

(Backwards thinking 101 tho).

Call it what you wish. I am still waiting why Assize should get two charges. If you can think of something other than "muh deeps". I am all ears. I also can't think of any reason why you would want the additional charge for healing purposes either. MP? Possibly. But again, I can take care of that by increasing those potencies. I wouldn't have to give you another charge at all.

If you took a few moments to actually go through the thread that you're mindlessly trying to debunk. You'd find that I've put my very reasons down multiple times already:

help make assize quite a lot more flexible and versatile.

Sitting on a charge to use for as a healing oGCD wouldn't be a significant MP & DPS loss anymore

Let's say the fight has a big raid wide AoE 1 minute into the fight. 2 charges will allow you to stall your next assize for the extra 15 seconds potentially allowing you to keep Asylum in your pocket for the next raid wide.

The strength of this is in allowing a WHM to actually try and get value out of the healing portion of Assize rather than it just being a 45 second dps+mp oGCD.

TLDR: The core point of the charge is to allow WHMs to push an Assize cast back up to 45 seconds without costing themselves MP or raid damage.

Sure you can bump up potencies and values instead but you're a rubbish developer if that's all you are willing to do.

[lisaa]

Oh give me a break. This is just high and mighty rubbish. I've explained in far too much depth why this is a beneficial move to allow Assize to actually offer value as a healing ability rather than getting pressured into being spammed on cooldown for MP and damage in it's current form. Did you read any of that? Good job indeed.

Even if it has charges you will still be pressured to use it for damage in burst windows. It won't change anything except instead of every 45s you have to use it every 60/120s. That is just the flaw of having damage on healers. If it has damage you will always be forced to use it for dps

[Sebazy]

Even if it has charges you will still be pressured to use it for damage in burst windows. It won't change anything except instead of every 45s you have to use it every 60/120s. That is just the flaw of having damage on healers. If it has damage you will always be forced to use it for dps

That's a fair stance and a good point. However if you put it on a timeline, trying to ensure you have 2 charges for each trick window doesn't work out as well as you might think. In fact I suspect it'd be a net loss to do just that.

A) If you throw one Assize on pull to get the cooldown ticking immediately:
0:00 - Opener - With 1st Assize right on the pull
0:10 - Trick 1 - Single Assize here
0:45 - Charge 1 **
1:30 - Charge 2 ++ - You have to have burned an extra cast around this point or you're losing MP and DPS
2:10 - Trick 2 - ++Double Assize++
2:15 - Charge 3 ++
3:00 - Charge 4 **
3:45 - Charge 5 ++
4:10 - Trick 3 - Double Assize here would require you to sit with 2 charges for 25 seconds
4:30 - Charge 6 **
5:15 - Charge 7 **
6:00 - Charge 8 ++
6:10 - Trick 4 - Double Assize here would require you to sit with 2 charges for 10 seconds
6:45 - Charge 9 **

B) Vs Assizing once Trick is up.
0:10 - Trick 1 - ++Double Assize++
0:55 - Charge 1 **
1:40 - Charge 2 ++
2:10 - Trick 2 - Double Assize here would require you to sit with 2 charges for 30 seconds unless Trick is slightly late
2:25 - Charge 3 **
3:10 - Charge 4 **
3:55 - Charge 5 ++
4:10 - Trick 3 - Double Assize here would require you to sit with 2 charges for 15 seconds.
4:40 - Charge 6 **
5:25 - Charge 7 ++
6:10 - Charge 8 ++
6:10 - Trick 4 - **Double Assize**
6:45 - Charge 9 **

(** = An Assize charge that is free to be used whenever within it's 45 second window - ++ = An Assize charge that you'd be hoarding for the next Trick window).

Obviously, this is somewhat rough numbers and of course forced disconnects or intermissions will probably throw this whole theory to the wind.

As the brief timelines hopefully show, regardless of which opener you go with, it's not really possible to align 2 Assizes with every trick window without sitting on 2 charges for anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds in these examples. So even if you're absolutely min maxing your damage, having 2 charges still gives you spare Assizes with which to do with as you please. My napkin theory suggests to me that you'll only be able to align a double assize with 1 out of 3 trick attacks in a fight unless I'm mistaken? Even in full logs mode, that still leaves a healthy number of charges on the side.

Thus stalling a charge to align it with a raid wide doesn't entail a DPS hit whatsoever as long as you don't allow yourself to end up with 2 charges outside of the opener.

Again, I think this is one of the best suggestions for a WHM buff that's been put forward in a while. It's not game changing, it's not super powerful, it's not going to break the meta. But it just takes a great ability and allows it to be more useful, likely in a manner more akin to what the developers originally intended.

[Nizzi]

Even if it has charges you will still be pressured to use it for damage in burst windows. It won't change anything except instead of every 45s you have to use it every 60/120s. That is just the flaw of having damage on healers. If it has damage you will always be forced to use it for dps

Sure, if you're in a purely "chasing parses and total optimization" setting; it's the same how Aetherflow usage technically "pressures" you to use it entirely on Energy Drain and never on healing. In reality, Sacred Soil and the odd Excog/Indom while Recitation is on CD are more helpful than using a full stack solely on Energy Drain. Having Assize on two charges would have the freedom of being able to use it on DPS and keep a charge for back up healing, in the same way that a lot of Scholars will hold onto one or two stacks of Aetherflow until dumping them before Aetherflow is off CD.
If the design of healers is to allow them to be as forgiving to new players as possible, we shouldn't say that something would be "forced" and therefore would not be a good change because it would be optimal in a raid setting to use it solely on DPS. I don't think that this is a good argument for why it shouldn't be allowed to have two charges, especially when that most healers in most levels of content already are more concerned with keeping people alive than doing "optimal" DPS. As far as I'm aware, this would only be a positive change across the board for White Mage players.

[QooEr]

+1 for assize getting a charge.
all the people saying youd need to save it for raid buffs dont realize that, even if they were right, at worst the status quo wouldnt change. At best it makes assize an actually flexible and reliable ogcd heal.

Even if it has charges you will still be pressured to use it for damage in burst windows. It won't change anything except instead of every 45s you have to use it every 60/120s. That is just the flaw of having damage on healers. If it has damage you will always be forced to use it for dps

Except you wouldnt, if using assize for the healing saves resources for any healer. If you dont need the healing, then yes, it doesnt change anything, but whats the problem then if you didnt need the heal in the first place?

As sebazy pointed out, the cooldown of assize at 45s does not line up neatly with 120s at all. their cooldowns align every 300 seconds, so youll have plenty of spare charges for when those dont align because losing uses of assize over the course of the fight is bad and its the very reason why assize having a charge would improve the current situation.

If you wonder "well you can still have a charge line up with every trick attack window", then id tell you the net potency gain of using assize in trick attack is 20 potency. (400*0.05)

Which means that if assize's healing saves any healer any kind of damage resource, be it a gcd, aetherflow, or a lily, holding that charge of assize for damage wont be worth it. you can say you feel pressured to use it in raid buffs all you want, but the reality is that saving a gcd heal will always be a bigger gain.

And then, even when assize lines up with full raid buffs (trick+div+tech step), saving a gcd heal is still more important. The net potency gain of using two assizes in raid buffs is 134.92. (800*0.16865).
The opportunity cost is a bit higher than that of a lily or energy drain, but its still better to use assize over a non-lily gcd heal in that scenario.



The only scenario where the proposed change doesnt "fix" anything is in speedkills where both healers are using near 0 gcd heals. And i dare you tell me that even one fifth of the playerbase gets to that point.