Feelings on Endwalker paladin

[Tex_Mex]

I'm super pumped for PLD and will be maining it on day 1. Holy Shelltron, Self heals, sweet new abilities, ridiculous AOE damage, still the same level of raid utility as SB..... i mean, they better nerf PLD damage to be 2-3% less than other tanks or they will end up a clearly overpowered tank.

That said, WAR also looks AMAZING for Endwalker. So many great QoL changes, on demand self healing, great DPS for a very simple rotation.

Oh and RIP DRK. You got almost nothing, just a couple new fluff abilities and now TBN will be the weakest of all of the short cooldown mitigation abilities. TBN is still good, but its not great compared to Holy Shelltron, Bloodwhetting, or Heart of Conundrum. Oh, and Living Dead is still Living Dead

[ArthurATDayne]

I'm super pumped for PLD and will be maining it on day 1. Holy Shelltron, Self heals, sweet new abilities, ridiculous AOE damage, still the same level of raid utility as SB..... i mean, they better nerf PLD damage to be 2-3% less than other tanks or they will end up a clearly overpowered tank.

That said, WAR also looks AMAZING for Endwalker. So many great QoL changes, on demand self healing, great DPS for a very simple rotation.

Oh and RIP DRK. You got almost nothing, just a couple new fluff abilities and now TBN will be the weakest of all of the short cooldown mitigation abilities. TBN is still good, but its not great compared to Holy Shelltron, Bloodwhetting, or Heart of Conundrum. Oh, and Living Dead is still Living Dead

I feel like all my complaints about WAR were mostly addressed, along with PLD.

The ongoing issue I still have with WAR though is the game doesn't let me Glamour Great Swords over the WAR's Axes :P

A WAR with Great Swords would be a better Dark Knight than Dark Knight going into Endwalker. We should also be allowed to Glamour all DRK armor on WAR too, it's not fair that the Knock-Off Warrior gets to wear such fine looking gear while the Real Deal Warrior can't.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I'm super pumped for PLD and will be maining it on day 1. Holy Shelltron, Self heals, sweet new abilities, ridiculous AOE damage, still the same level of raid utility as SB..... i mean, they better nerf PLD damage to be 2-3% less than other tanks or they will end up a clearly overpowered tank.

Erm...no it won't need a 2-3% damage nerf, all tanks got a new big hitting skill, all tanks got upgraded mitigation. Paladin and Warrior both got a heal with their AoE mitigation which is fair since shields last the one hit compared to Heart of Light and Dark Missionary can be extremely more effective in multiple raid wides.

Further Paladin is the most balanced job currently in both sacrificing one personal mitigation for one extra AoE mitigation, and in it's damaged type similar to Gunbreaker being sustain versus burst like Warrior and Dark Knight. Sustained damage beats burst in long drawn out fights while burst works better in short phases or fights with multiple downtime phases.

Gaining healing affects to Holy Spirit, Holy Circle and Holy Sheltron won't be game breaking, just means Paladins will, likely only need the same amount of attention from healers as the other tanks. And gives more incentive to use Intervention instead of sitting on 100 gauge.

It comes across as nothing more than backhanded compliments follow anything positive with a negative, you should try to want jobs be the best they can be not tear them down just because they got something new.

[Mezzoforte]

Erm...no it won't need a 2-3% damage nerf, all tanks got a new big hitting skill, all tanks got upgraded mitigation. Paladin and Warrior both got a heal with their AoE mitigation which is fair since shields last the one hit compared to Heart of Light and Dark Missionary can be extremely more effective in multiple raid wides.

Further Paladin is the most balanced job currently in both sacrificing one personal mitigation for one extra AoE mitigation, and in it's damaged type similar to Gunbreaker being sustain versus burst like Warrior and Dark Knight. Sustained damage beats burst in long drawn out fights while burst works better in short phases or fights with multiple downtime phases.

Gaining healing affects to Holy Spirit, Holy Circle and Holy Sheltron won't be game breaking, just means Paladins will, likely only need the same amount of attention from healers as the other tanks. And gives more incentive to use Intervention instead of sitting on 100 gauge.

It comes across as nothing more than backhanded compliments follow anything positive with a negative, you should try to want jobs be the best they can be not tear them down just because they got something new.

I think you missed what they were getting across. They were saying with how bad ass and awesome paladin will be in Endwalker that if they dont at least do a little less damage then almost everyone will be playing it. That is not a back handed compliment. That is a compliment of the highest order. You shouldnt immediately assign malign or malevolent intent to others opinions so quickly and with such confidence. Trying to tear down another player for no good reason.

[Undeadfire]

I think you missed what they were getting across. They were saying with how bad ass and awesome paladin will be in Endwalker that if they dont at least do a little less damage then almost everyone will be playing it. That is not a back handed compliment. That is a compliment of the highest order. You shouldnt immediately assign malign or malevolent intent to others opinions so quickly and with such confidence. Trying to tear down another player for no good reason.

Yeah... He is correct. Lowering the damage % because it's got solid tools will make it useless. Warrior has the best tank tools in the game yet it's useless, currently horrible to adapt comps on, has the lowest DPS of the lot and you have to change melds completely vs the other 3 tanks just to keep up.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I think you missed what they were getting across. They were saying with how bad ass and awesome paladin will be in Endwalker that if they dont at least do a little less damage then almost everyone will be playing it. That is not a back handed compliment. That is a compliment of the highest order. You shouldnt immediately assign malign or malevolent intent to others opinions so quickly and with such confidence. Trying to tear down another player for no good reason.

Sorry but I didn't miss a thing. It is a back handed compliment. So let me put this in another context, Warrior was busted in HW and SB, especially the former. It had the best raid utility out of the three tanks, no contest, and the best damage but no body asked for it to do 2-3% dmg less than Paladin or Dark Knight. So why ask now for a dps nerf when mitigation is actually balanced?

A running theme I see often is, some people are quick to think on here, that Paladin should always do less than the other tanks for some reason with zero thought given to Paladin's toolkit against the other tanks. If you didn't know, its pretty well balanced.

[Tex_Mex]

Sorry but I didn't miss a thing. It is a back handed compliment. So let me put this in another context, Warrior was busted in HW and SB, especially the former. It had the best raid utility out of the three tanks, no contest, and the best damage but no body asked for it to do 2-3% dmg less than Paladin or Dark Knight. So why ask now for a dps nerf when mitigation is actually balanced?

A running theme I see often is, some people are quick to think on here, that Paladin should always do less than the other tanks for some reason with zero thought given to Paladin's toolkit against the other tanks. If you didn't know, its pretty well balanced.

Nope lol. Mezzo was right. It was absolutely meant as a major compliment. Maybe try not to assume what others are thinking. I only meant that PLD looks so damn amazing that I hope they don't make it overpowered. I want there to be good spread amongst all of the tanks. I want there to be upsides and downsides. A 2% decrease in DPS will only affect the highest skill level of players in any real way, so for the vast majority of us, it will make absolutely no difference. I am absolutely maining PLD for this next expac.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Nope lol. Mezzo was right. It was absolutely meant as a major compliment. Maybe try not to assume what others are thinking. I only meant that PLD looks so damn amazing that I hope they don't make it overpowered. I want there to be good spread amongst all of the tanks. I want there to be upsides and downsides. A 2% decrease in DPS will only affect the highest skill level of players in any real way, so for the vast majority of us, it will make absolutely no difference. I am absolutely maining PLD for this next expac.

Intention or not, it is still a backhanded compliment, the current balance is fine from now moving forward, and "A 2% decrease in DPS will only affect the highest skill level of players in any real way so for the vast majority of us, it will make absolutely no difference.", is extremely disengenuious whether you realise it or not. Like equally a job could be slightly overpowered at the highest level of play, that it won't affect casuals, so why even need to make the comment.

DPS should not be balance between tanks based on solely mitigation, but as I have stated earlier, on it's damage type, sustain versus burst. Warrior and Dark Knight are still going to be pretty bursty in their openers even with the loss of 2 Fell Cleaves / Bloodspillers, while Paladin and Gunbreaker follow a strict rotation, that get punished by downtime, usually requiring augmentation of standard rotation or specific opener to minimise damage loss from downtime.

If you want to delve further into Paladin's toolkit though, much of Paladin's raid utlity has either cost or sacrifice while also recieving regrettably no benefit from in most cases. Firstly Cover, outside of niche uptime usage and the odd gimmick to avoid tank swapping is pretty useless costing 50 gauge while having no real defensive benefit, preferably it should either have no gauge cost while it no longer has it's 20% mitigation from SB iteration, or they restore the 20% mitigation while retaining current iterations gauge cost. With Intervention's buff, Cover will be gathering dust for the most part, with the exception of casual players that don't quite grasp the usage and just press it to look cool, or think they're being helpful.

Divine Veil, got the same buff as Shake it Off, has a 400 potency heal attached per Media Tour build, but still does not affect the Paladin, while one QoL has come about in Holy Spirit and Holy Circle can proc Veil, it will be also be clunky in optimisation, so personally it's a double edged sword as far as QoL goes. Passage of Arms, while it mitigates incoming damage by 15% for party members that stand inside it's AoE to recieve it's buff, it only removes the rng element from blocking while the ability is active/ channeled for the Paladin.

Three raid utilities that provide no defensive benefit to Paladin whatsoever, and the last ability being Clemency, which has been nerfed, in what I assume to compensate for the healing being added to Holy Spirit, Holy Circle and Holy Sheltron, is a fair trade off, since it allows Paladin to finally have some passive self-sustain without the need to sacrifice MP and GCDs solely to heal itself at the expense of dealing DPS and wasting resource. It still has the Ability to Spam Clemency under Requiscat with no cast time in dire situations if the need arises, but it won't be as strong as it is now.

If you want to get more particular, Paladin still has to wait 22.5seconds into a fight before it can even gain access to Holy Sheltron/ Intervention / cover since it only gains resource from auto-attacks, it also cannot generate any resource during downtime, while the other three tanks can generate MP or wait for the timer to complete it's cooldown period.

With the very little gain it recieves defensively from it raid utility and the sacrifice of one personal mitigation cooldown, for one extra raid utility, compared to the other three tanks, it balances itself out having a pretty high sustain, out DPSing Warrior and Dark Knight in longer fights, while giving a slightly weaker show in short phases or multiple downtime phases. This is where the trade-off should lie, in determining if a job's damage output should be buffed or nerfed, not on a whim because a job got a few QoL or a couple new skills to it's kit.

[Lyth]

While I'd agree that jobs shouldn't trade off mitigation vs. damage output, I don't think that a strictly rotational paint-by-numbers job that you can plan out on a spreadsheet and tap out with your face semi-inebriated should automatically do more damage than one that makes you juggle resources, react to procs, and make decisions on the fly. Especially when all four tanks are on similar 60 second damage windows.

Instead of outright removing actions this expansion, the dev team either upgraded them or had them share hotbar real estate. Does it really matter that Cover or Shield Bash are niche? You're not losing anything for having access to them. Cover has a long and storied history of cheesing mechanics across expansions. I think you'd be daft to want to give it up for nothing. Does it really matter that DV doesn't affect PLD? It's not like you're going to be the first to die to a raidwide. And at the end of the day, you have two raidwide mitigation tools for everyone else's one. And that's probably worth more on average than a situational dodge cooldown.

WAR and PLD approach utility in different ways. WAR tends to bake everything and the kitchen sink into a single move. PLD has a bunch of little situational tricks that all add up to make it more versatile than the rest. But it would be a really tough sell to claim that PLD is only marginally better at utility than the other tanks. I think that if PLD is to be both only marginally better at dps and utility, we're going to see a lot less variation in comps this expansion.

[Undeadfire]

while Paladin and Gunbreaker follow a strict rotation, that get punished by downtime, usually requiring augmentation of standard rotation or specific opener to minimise damage loss from downtime.

Very true, that's why some fights the Drk takes over for it's short power burst windows. Gnb doesn't really have the downtime issues thanks to it's 20s Burst timer while Paladin has to spend 35-36 seconds getting through a full window, and plenty of fights ditch these uptimes half way through or further for Paladins current push.

Passage of Arms, while it mitigates incoming damage by 15% for party members that stand inside it's AoE to recieve it's buff, it only removes the rng element from blocking while the ability is active/ channeled for the Paladin.

At least we don't have to hold it thanks to buff lasting 5 seconds.