Guys STOP

[ThorneDynasty]

First post: "This is my grand stand, there's nothing that needs to be fixed about DRK!"

Second post: "Okay some things will obviously have to be fixed about DRK"

Pretty telling I would say.

[Aluja89]

I mean I agree with you but the issue is tanks are still the least popular job. They were even less popular when they were more complicated. Like it or not but streamlining tanks helped making role more popular. Sure, you who likes complicated tanks may quit tanking but if instead 50 casual players will pick up tank role in your place - that's less q time, faster q for all content and overall more win for SE and playerbase.

I have my own personal opinion about tanks overall, however I also see a reason behind tanks being simplified - it makes job more popular which it very much needs. When you consider changes you make for a game you consider it from logical point:

1. Do I make 100,000.00 players more happy?
2. Do I make 1,000.00 players more happy?

The answer is, for better or worse, only one.

This is flawed logic, casuals don't know the difference between now and then. It wasn't that different, just 2 extra buttons.

All casuals see are aesthetics, besides if there are 50 new tanks then there are 500 new DPS players. If they want more tanks then they just need to create more tanks that appeal to different people.

Same thing is happening in fighting games now which is slowly dying out thankfully. They kept making the games more "accessible" to attract casuals but casuals will always button mash anyway, the only reason they bought the game is because of cool looking characters because they don't know any different and that's all it is.

Personally, I think these class designers are unprofessional biased hacks and the way tanks and healers are designed the way they are is so DPS people can just play something else once in a while without bothering to learn much.

[Shin96]

Ultimately if their goal was to reach a certain threshold or number; they were successful. But numbers are not always indicative of success, quite the contrary.

Making the tanks more accessibly is an oxymoron. If your goal is to make tanking easier to learn, you don't necessarily limit the skill gap to acommodate everyone. Retention is no longer necessary. Your overall experience and quality found in tanks will greatly decrease. I noticed this more often in Shadowbringers while running older content and wiping more often, which ironically enough was their reasoning for said changes to prevent this also.

The right way to approach accessibility is by decreasing complex mechanics early on. Dark Knight is a prime example of what happens when you get everything wrong. Limited amounts of skills and tools all the way up to 60; the job starts picking up at 70. Once you reach 80 things don't get better. Their design approach is backwards quite literally, and it's bleeding into the maximum level experience.

Essentially tanks need to be designed in a way where players are prepared to deal with mechanics more effectively on a consistent basis through content, etc. the worst thing you can do is appeal to a casual player with a traditionally difficult sub-role. I wipe far more often doing Savage than before and this is the case for all roles across the spectrum recently.

Anyhow, yes I'm aware of the logical reasoning behind these changes, but when things aren't fun anymore and you don't get a good tank like me; prepare to deal with more frustrating situations down the line.

[RinaB]

The reality of the situation is entitlement. Healers don't shut up about dps and tanks are the same. The problem is, is you're not actually good at the roles you chose because you're so focused on said role being something its not. I'll agree tanking is boring as shit but that comes AFTER experience and being good with the role.

[RobynDaBank]

The reality of the situation is entitlement. Healers don't shut up about dps and tanks are the same. The problem is, is you're not actually good at the roles you chose because you're so focused on said role being something its not. I'll agree tanking is boring as shit but that comes AFTER experience and being good with the role.

Leaving aside what my personal stance on the issue is, I feel at least in the case of healers it's the veterans well familiar with the fight and timings already who ask for more damage (could be anything to engage, even utility from what I've seen) so they must be experienced and good at the role right?

[RinaB]

Leaving aside what my personal stance on the issue is, I feel at least in the case of healers it's the veterans well familiar with the fight and timings already who ask for more damage (could be anything to engage, even utility from what I've seen) so they must be experienced and good at the role right?

With 2 dps spells healers are already a problem. Noone actually cares about healer bitching because all that "down time" means dead bodies as can be seen in all levels of content.

[Mortex]

With 2 dps spells healers are already a problem. Noone actually cares about healer bitching because all that "down time" means dead bodies as can be seen in all levels of content.

The same you can say about tanks not mitigating anything in dungeons or dps not using blood bath, feint, second wind, addle, curing Walz etc. it’s called personal responsibility and every job/person can do it, too help clear content.

[Shin96]

Leaving aside what my personal stance on the issue is, I feel at least in the case of healers it's the veterans well familiar with the fight and timings already who ask for more damage (could be anything to engage, even utility from what I've seen) so they must be experienced and good at the role right?

If someone is bored out of their mind and underwhelmed in every aspect then yes, that person is experienced. Either that or they are above average in terms of reflex or cognitive abilities.

Tanking is boring. And if not for all those screechy little casuals we wouldn't be in this mess, but we have to live with them sadly, even though I'd prefer not to. That's why I will switch to DPS.

At least a good DPS is appreciated and respected, wanting more engagement as a tank or something beyond 1-2-3 makes you an entitled brat, I suspect.

[ThorneDynasty]

I find the whole skill/playstyle discrepancy argument that's supposed to explain tank/healer homogenization a bit confusing. It doesn't seem to apply to DPS where it seems pretty acceptable different jobs cater to different players, the whole point of a class system should be to accommodate different type of players - why is it only when it comes to tanking and healing that your skills have to transfer near 1:1 between each job?

I don't really buy the excuse of switching jobs blindly being any less disastrous when a DPS role player does it either, failing pulls because you were blindsided by poor DPS output is just as common as healing and mitigation issues.

[Mikey_R]

I find the whole skill/playstyle discrepancy argument that's supposed to explain tank/healer homogenization a bit confusing. It doesn't seem to apply to DPS where it seems pretty acceptable different jobs cater to different players, the whole point of a class system should be to accommodate different type of players - why is it only when it comes to tanking and healing that your skills have to transfer near 1:1 between each job?

I don't really buy the excuse of switching jobs blindly being any less disastrous when a DPS role player does it either, failing pulls because you were blindsided by poor DPS output is just as common as healing and mitigation issues.

Tanks and healers need to have a basic toolkit otherwise you run the risk that one tank or healer will outdo another, it also makes it easier to design fights if you know they group composition has a certain basic kit you can work around.

For DPS, their basic kit is just do damage. They don't need to worry about mitigating or healing damage as it isn't a primary function, so they can use more actions dedicated to doing damage.

You also have to remember that SE wants every job to be able to clear every piece of content, so they want to avoid the case where Tank A is much better on fight A than Tank B, or a situation where Tank A and Healer A synergise much better than Tank B and Healer A. This could then leave things open that you could restrict your tanks/healers dependant on the tanks/healers you happen to have.