White-mage is doomed - and why

[VictoriaLuv]

Lets talk about how the dev team sees white-mage job as a whole. a healer for new players. cause of that dev team doesn't take in consideration. the viability white mage in static end-game however they always managed keep it somewhat viable if white mage was all you had at the time. you could pull one on spot and get things done.

Do not think I hating on white-mage or fact players may love this job. I personal love white-mage. it was first healer in final fantasy series all way back on Nintendo. this about 30 or so years ago. you guys may love mmos may not love final fantasy as gaming series. but there is hardcore following behind each game. doesn't really have anything do with balancing the job.

most dungeons/raids last longer then 7.50 mins hell good runs savage have 22 min 24 min clear speed that if someone has up it is a perfect run. chances always having perfect run no one making mistakes is slim.

Thin air nerf is harsher then people realise. this only grants you free cast of any spell. this doesn't grant you any mana return. only a 0 mana cost on single spell. and lily bell is dead even before it comes out. cause if heal effects requires you to be hit to activate. in content that would kill you in one shot

sure cure is now 500 potency. but fishing freecures even if both cures have 100+ potency increase with regen increase. slowly but surely you run out oom. what makes white really somewhat good is there big heals.

Keep in mind cure III, Medica II and Medica all have beafy mp cost. this includes raise. this would mean only lucid dreaming will be granting mp returns. even if you gimp yourself put all melds on piety + buy eithers that only give 1500 potency's to combat this

other healers still out-preform you simply cause meld other stats that benefit them without having worry about mp recovery lose. let me explain this mp recovery is very important thing for all healers. most healers get by piety that's already on there gear by default.

now lets talk about other issues with white-mage design in there quest to make white mage new player friendly they directly understood white-mage abilities -On purpose- that's right they make white-mage the inferior healer on purpose.

you think am trolling but promise you im not am passionate and love this game as much as everyone else does. but it breaks my heart when they take my favourite job continueless make it red-headed step child of final fantasy. yes im upset. . constantly moving 1 step forward to only take 5 steps back

its time they give up on the idea that white-mage is noobie only healer. cause once you make it past 50 the noobie training wheels come off. this where job true identity should be born.

not trying sound offensive when say this but people invested money into your company with hope in there heart for change. so please listen to player feedback. stop treating us poorly

do you really think giving white-mages reasonable amount of buffs just so they can have stable position in end game content would make any other healer less viable no. i mean as long as damage buffs and crit buff exist ast/sch always be invited to statics. however same cant be same for white mage your buffs are not strong enough transidence is weak. aqua viel is strong but only last 8 seconds divine bansion has 2 charges but cant crit. assize can be two charges. hell even if your hard stuck keeping thin air like this at least have it restore 1000-1500 mp on use

even now lilybell activation need to change whole idea of the white-mage taking damage to heal very weak one isn't worth it. ive done all research. unless alchemist has new craftable potions that give 5000 mp a pot dont see white mage being in end game.

everything say on this post is 100% the truth. you dont believe me do the math take into account you cannot be baised cause you love the job

if this was done to any other healer not just white-mage id say something. there has be viability for each individual healer. sure there not best at it but they have to be viable not completely dead on arrive watch will stop people playing favorite job cause -cant do content-

[MilkieTea]

Victoria, *please* stop making multiple threads about the same subject. Keep your discussions in one thread.

[VictoriaLuv]

Victoria, *please* stop making multiple threads about the same subject. Keep your discussions in one thread.

please listen to what Im trying to say instead of immediantly not reading making comments like this trying be decent here

[QooEr]

ive said it in other threads but ill repeat it here because i think its relevant and victoria isnt completely midguided this time.

The nerf to thin air was a gigantic hit to whm's mp economy.
Whm will be the healer with the worst mp economy in endwalker. Aside from lucid dreaming, their only mp recovery is assize (500mp/45s). As for mp conservation tools they only get a single spell under thin air, and i guess lilies count as free gcds.

This leaves whm getting on average 666 mp + 1 free spell every minute.

For comparison, minus lucid dreaming:
-sch gets 2000 mp per min
-ast gets 1000 mp/min from cards + average 2000 mp/min from astrodyne
-sge gets 1500 mp per min from addersgall + average 333 mp/min from rizomata

Its pretty clear whm is completely outclassed in the mp restoration department. You might be compelled to say "well whm could use thin air on an expensive heal or a rez every minute! its akin to having 2400 extra mp per min!". To which i have two retorts.

1. Ast gets on average 3000 mp per min. Ast could raise once every minute too and still end up with 600 mp restored. Assize is 666 mp per minute btw...

2. thin air does not restore mp, only conserves it. If you are casting continuously in an encounter (which you should), no matter what spell you use under thin air, it wont stop you from running out of mp any sooner.

Im going to make another comparison.
First, let\\'s assume that lucid dreaming will still restore 3500 mp on endwalker. Lets also assume that in endwalker, base piety restores the same amount of mp as in Shb. This latter assumption is based on the fact that as of now, regardless of character level, at 0 extra piety you always restore 200 mp per server tick.

Taking the aforementioned into account, imagine a healer with 0 spell speed and 0 piety on their gear, only doing their damage rotation and using every recovery ability in their kit, until they run out of MP.
- ast is MP positive. (never runs out of mp)
- sch would last 125 mins until out of mp
- sge would last ~15.5 mins until oom
- whm would last ~7.5 mins until oom

For reference, BiS sets from the balance that are meant to be only used for speedkills and are not suited for regular play, usually last around 7 mins til oom.

its also worth noting that, if you use every lily you get as soon as possible merely to save the mp from that gcd, whm lasts 20 mins till oom. Ironically, these are 4 more free gcds every 2 minutes, which is exactly what old thin air used to bring over its endwalker iteration.

What does this mean for whm?
WHM is going to need to invest heavily into piety compared to the other healers.* Which will decrease its damage contribution considerably.

WHM is going to need to use lilies more frequently as an mp management tool, or just drop gcds. Neither of those are good options because whm as a class with no buffs needs to have good personal damage.

*edit: As explained in a comment below, assuming piety will work mostly the same in endwalker as it does now, WHM would need to invest in at least 13 max level materias worth of piety just to match sage's base mp economy. That's nearly half of a gearset's materia slots spent on just doing what every other healer will be able do with 0.

[ItMe]

Taking the aforementioned into account, imagine a healer with 0 spell speed and 0 piety on their gear,
[...]
What does this mean for whm?
WHM is going to need to invest heavily into piety compared to the other healers.

What is "invest heavily" in this context?
Your gear gives you a few thousand piety, right?
Assuming Endwalker gear gives the same,
and assuming 1 piety in Endwalker gives about what it does in Shadowbringers,
and assuming piety restores by the same / a similar formula...
How much piety should WHM be looking to have?

Most fights are around 8-12 minutes, so I wouldn't think it would need too much, especially with a co-healer to split the burden. But I also just don't know what 1 piety gives you regen wise.
I know you just did a bunch of math, but can you lay it out for me a bit clearer please? I don't know what "more" means.

[Doragan]

snip

It's not directly related,but I would like SE to reinstate the individual job MP regen. This would solve the individual balancing issues it is about to cause -- to be fair, Aetherflow is back to 20% MP and AST got the 8(?)% MP per draw during ShB, so I wouldn't be surprised if they would go through that direction again.

It might not be a big issue if they buffed Piety/if it's still on every piece of equipement again, but I wouldn't count on it.

There's also the possibility that the Thin Air stack gets consumed even if you don't finish the full spell cast (i.e. get interrupted).

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

Healers have crazy mana regen. There is zero mp management anymore in this game. I wouldn't be sad if all other healers got nerfed a little, too. And then remove instant cast heals.

[QooEr]

What is "invest heavily" in this context?

By invest heavily, i mean to even catch up on the other healers' mp restored per min. Let's put thin air as an effective +400 extra mp per min as a generous "case B".
For whm to match sage's mp economy of ~1833 extra mp per minute, it would need to restore 1167 more mp per min, or 767 for case B.
That translates to approx ~1287 piety for case A and ~843 for case B, for a lv 80 character in ShB.

Raw numbers are a bit confusing, so let me put this in terms of melds. 800 piety is about 13 grade viii melds. 1300 is 21 melds.
WHM would need to meld piety on half of its materia slots for it to barely match the base mp regen of sage, which has the second worst mp economy of the healers.

Most fights are around 8-12 minutes, so I wouldn't think it would need too much, especially with a co-healer to split the burden.

Fights do last 8-12 minutes, however you also need to consider the following:
- The time till oom was presented as full gcd uptime of only dps spells, which are our cheapest spells. Casting any healing spells whatsoever outside of thin air will only cost them more mp.
- ergo, The 7 mins is the optimal scenario because thats assuming whm never casted medica ii or anything of the sort.
- This is assuming 0 spell speed. having spell speed on gear only exacerbates the problem
- the very vast majority of players cast gcd heals that arent afflatus.
- if you die youre pretty much screwed

If you want a more comfortable gearset, if youre not very experienced, or if you just want to prog and want to have a cushion of mp, you would FIRST need to slot piety equivalent of 13 melds just to match what other jobs can do with zero piety melds. Any other healer with that much piety would be infinitely more comfortable regarding their mp.

[Adeacia]

What I'm seeing here is that WHM will be similar to how it was in HW? I had MP issues for that whole expansion.

[VictoriaLuv]

Healers have crazy mana regen. There is zero mp management anymore in this game. I wouldn't be sad if all other healers got nerfed a little, too. And then remove instant cast heals.

no one is saying that. what we saying is thin air being nerf is more huger then people realise