Predict the endwalker healing meta!

[Raminax]

Don't tier lists or metagaming generally assume that people play the stuff at a very high or nearly perfect level, anyway?

[Derio]

Static meta: AST/SCH

Casual meta: WHM/SGE

While WHM did get nerfed in certain areas its simplistic design is still very new savage healer friendly over AST due to not having to worry about raid buff alignment. SGE and SCH might just be asthetic choosing but SCH is really really good however there are some players that just refuse to play SCH due to the fairy management and possible ghosting.

[Iedarus]

From what I can see, as long as SCH and AST are the only healers with raid buffs/debuffs, they'll always be meta. Not like meta matters that much anyway since it only applies to speed clearing.

[Sunako]

AST SCH

If not begin of the expansion, definitely sooner or later.

[IllyaPrisma]

On paper, with current values, AST + SGE seems better for both progression and damage.
- Chain Stratagem is noticeably weaker at the start of expansions, since crit buffs have more impact much later in gear progression.
- Lilybell doesn't actually seem that good, since the WHM needs to be the one hit in order to trigger it. (though maybe there will be an abundance of J-Wave Style Damage output)
- SGE's HPS is significantly higher than SCHs ~and~ SGE has no opportunity cost for using Addersgall Healing oGCDs.
- Macrocosmos

SCH with Expedient may also be an incredibly powerful prog and uptime tool, but I do not personally believe that ability alone will tip the balance in SCHs favor.

[DragoAskani]

On paper, with current values, AST + SGE seems better for both progression and damage.
- Chain Stratagem is noticeably weaker at the start of expansions, since crit buffs have more impact much later in gear progression.
- Lilybell doesn't actually seem that good, since the WHM needs to be the one hit in order to trigger it. (though maybe there will be an abundance of J-Wave Style Damage output)
- SGE's HPS is significantly higher than SCHs ~and~ SGE has no opportunity cost for using Addersgall Healing oGCDs.
- Macrocosmos

SCH with Expedient may also be an incredibly powerful prog and uptime tool, but I do not personally believe that ability alone will tip the balance in SCHs favor.

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

[WaxSw]

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

Potencies are all we have to compare them but just by looking at the skills SGE seems to have an edge in a lot of aspects, quick examples are physis vs whispering dawn in which physis is a 20% stronger, the existence of physis 2, Zoe is far more versatile than deplo as it not only can be used to put a bigger shield with prognosis than anything Sch can put without relying on buffs and crits but also can be used with pneuma for an 800 potency heal that happens to be dps neutral (and gain in AoE), Haima as a source of single target shielding far more consistent than seraphic veil and Painhaima by its nature of shielding first and healing second has an easier time to not waste potential than Consolation, etc...

Sch shielding also does not have better numbers unless you go to suboptimal routes (basically, recitation and buff it to the extreme), Succor is worth 320 potency shield in EW which is the same as E!Prognosis and both Adlo and E!Diagnosis are clones, difference being that if you dont crit and spread an adlo you'd spread a 540 potency shield vs Zoe + E!Prognosis which is worth 640, Scholar could in theory surpass Sge's numbers if they go full protraction+recitation+fey illum+dissipation but at least 3 of those 4 skills will be used in uptime so unless a cheese strat needs it that would be overkill and poorly efficient and if we take attacks that deal multiple hits panhaima + Zoe E!prognosis alone can be better than anything Sch can throw

About range while its true Sch has the fairy to heal far away Sge's reach in terms of the radius of its heals are either equal or higher than Sch's and with Icaros to move freely to a party member unless mechanics need the healers to be far away or not being able to reach party members Sge could overcome that, thats without mention how the 3 major skills Sch has to use from far away are Consolation, Whispering Dawn and Soil have a Sge equivalent that is "fire and forget" being Panhaima a heal that automatically refresh the shield, Physis a regen that once in on the party member you can forget about it and Kerachole being also a skill that once makes contact with the party member they get the full benefit so if they have to be far away from the party for not too long periods of time a smart sge could do as well as Sch

And while its true Sge has the least mobility vs Sch its also worth notice that every downtime gives sge up to 3 intacast gcds + melee range gcd every 45s + a gap closer+ the dot refresh and the lower cast time in EW, they're not a mage turret and contrary to Sch they have more tools to move without losing dps (woudnt be suprised if they also give more ways to get toxicons in 6.05 too)

[rewd]

Potencies are all we have to compare them but just by looking at the skills SGE seems to have an edge in a lot of aspects, quick examples are physis vs whispering dawn in which physis is a 20% stronger, the existence of physis 2 and how it buffs ogcds something Sch does not have that early and by when it gets one Sge unlocks a 20% buff too, Zoe is far more versatile than deplo as it not only can be used to put a bigger shield with prognosis than anything Sch can put without relying on buffs and crits but also can be used with pneuma for an 800 potency heal that happens to be dps neutral (and gain in AoE), Haima as a source of single target shielding far more consistent than seraphic veil and Painhaima by its nature of shielding first and healing second has an easier time to not waste potential than Consolation, etc...

Sch shielding also does not have better numbers unless you go to suboptimal routes (basically, recitation and buff it to the extreme), Succor is worth 320 potency shield in EW which is the same as E!Prognosis and both Adlo and E!Diagnosis are clones, difference being that if you dont crit and spread an adlo you'd spread a 540 potency shield vs Zoe + E!Prognosis which is worth 640, Scholar could in theory surpass Sge's numbers if they go full protraction+recitation+fey illum+dissipation but at least 3 of those 4 skills will be used in uptime so unless a cheese strat needs it that would be overkill and poorly efficient and if we take attacks that deal multiple hits panhaima + Zoe E!prognosis alone can be better than anything Sch can throw

Physis II only works on spells, not abilities. Some SGE skills are more powerful, some SCH skills are more powerful, so there's no clear advantage for SGE.

If you have to keep moving the goalposts to prove that SCH is not a better shield healer (or that it has better better numbers, at least), you are not helping your case. Shielding could already be considered "suboptimal" and having to use skills to enhance your skills doesn't take anything away from SCH's power (besides, SGE does the same with Zoe)

[WaxSw]

Physis II only works on spells, not abilities. Some SGE skills are more powerful, some SCH skills are more powerful, so there's no clear advantage for SGE.

If you have to keep moving the goalposts to prove that SCH is not a better shield healer (or that it has better better numbers, at least), you are not helping your case. Shielding could already be considered "suboptimal" and having to use skills to enhance your skills doesn't take anything away from SCH's power (besides, SGE does the same with Zoe)

True about physis 2, I'll edit that

However I dont think I'm moving goalposts about Sch, Im just analyzing it case to case. GCD wise Sch has to use more key tools that harm its dps or leave it with less optimal heals than Sge to matchup and surpass its shielding potential, at a base level of no buffs both shield the same (320 potency shield) however Sge's shield is instacast while Sch one needs to be casted, with "low" investment Sge takes the crown as ZoE+E!Prognosis is better of an AoE Shield than the biggest Shield Sch can use with the same level of investment Deplo+Adlo (640 potency shield vs 540) potency, if we go into higher investment then Sch becomes better gcd wise for a single hit but keeps being worse at multihits even with consolation because the nature of how haima and panhaima works. When the two are almost identical at 0 investement, Sage is stronger at low investment (the 2 more common cases) and only at an investment so high it becomes suboptimal outside stuff like cheese strats and only if there is no multihits Sch takes the lead I dont think we have the ground to say Sch is a better shielder, especially when efficiency wise Sge has better tools for the shielding.

Some SGE skills are more powerful, some SCH skills are more powerful, so there's no clear advantage for SGE.

I disagree, Sch has neat tools and high heal power but in raw healing capabilities doesn't have as many as Sge giving the latter an edge and if we consider efficiency is not even a contest (Sch has 9 ogcd heals + embrace and out of those 9 4 are dps losses unless recitation is used, in which case only 2 vs Sge which has 11 dps neutral heals + kardia), for every heal or cooldown Sch has and its stronger you can name one in Sge's toolkit that is either stronger than its Sch counterpart, more efficient and/or more versatile, quick examples physis vs whispering dawn, Zoe vs Deplo, all the non recitation aetherflow heals vs addersgall heals...

[IllyaPrisma]

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

For the sake of your argument, I will completely disregard potency (even though Potency as it stands right now puts SGE clearly in the lead)

SGE's shielding is not inferior to SCH. All of SGE's shielding GCDs can be cast while moving, giving SGE numerous situations where they would be favorable.
I also don't really understand people like you saying SGE is immobile. Each healer now has tremendous slide cast and movement potential. SGE can also gather Addersting stacks by pre-shielding before pull or during transition.
SCHs are required to save an energy drain for movement and retain their opportunity cost for Aetherflow. SGE can freely use Addersgall (Allowing for free Kerachole Damage Reduction and Regen without the placement restrictions of Soil)
Both SCH and SGE have roughly the same range on all healing abilities showcased thus far (several exceptions: Fey Blessing, Seraph, Pneuma, Physis II)
Most importantly, SGE has Prognosis, a Medica/Helios variant.

I believe the only real advantage SCH has over the other healers is Expedient and Displaced Healing. While WHM and AST have several decent options for displaced healing, SGE really doesn't have anything in that category, except for Pneuma, which has a very large 25m radius.