Is bard in a bad spot right now?

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Bard plays music about as much as Dancer dances.
I am once again confused the issue at hand.

If you want to get technical Dancer does dance when they use their weaponskills. What does "Bard" do? Fire magic arrows of blinding white light.

[aveyond-dreams]

There isn't any class confusion when it comes to Dancer. Each attack is in some way shape or form, a dance move, looks good, and gets the point across. Bard has 3, max 4 song skills that are actually used. And then 20 arcane ranger skills.

I do not believe for a second that the people who claim to be so in love with Bard as it is now make up a greater number than the two (separate) groups of people who want to play either a dedicated Archer/Ranger or a dedicated Bard. I know when I first tried this game back in 2013 I dropped Archer immediately after I discovered I would be forced to become a Bard, because at the time I had no interest in what I thought was a weird mishmash.

8 years later, the mishmash job has now lost 99% of its support functions and whenever I want to play support, my options are either Astro or Dancer. Actually wait-add Red Mage onto the list to. Because Red Mage's buff is more powerful than any of Bard's songs. Instead of a class that buffs the party with songs in almost every video game its appeared in. I do not understand why some people insist on viewing these classes in a vacuum "because they're unique!" when the reality is that some things just really are that straightforward.

An archer should use arrows and all sorts of skills of that nature. A bard should be able to sing more than 3 songs (and actually hear its own songs too).

[Ayche]

If you want to get technical Dancer does dance when they use their weaponskills. What does "Bard" do? Fire magic arrows of blinding white light.

Cmon, that is reaching.
So are you satisfied if Bards hum some tunes during the three songs?

[Rika007]

*snip*

All the yes to this. We've been having this discussion about breaking apart the Bow and Music for 8 FREAKING years now and every time it's brought up no one EVER discusses all of the problems that arises from it. This ISN'T like removing DoTs from Summoner, Greased Lightning from Monk, Dark Arts from Dark Knight, or Diurnal Sect from AST. This would be a core rework that would mean EVERY SINGLE THING that Bard is related to in ALL form of FFXIV related media would have to be reworked entirely. That is why it is not gonna happen, that would actually be MORE work then creating two new jobs for an expansion. The dev team would have to give up on putting any other jobs into the game only to focus on one job and risk pissing off anyone who already liked it. No one ever addresses this problem when they talk about it, because there is no answer to it. It would literally be a nightmare for the devs, and one they would never do. I feel more confident in saying their is a higher chance they make Blue Mage a full job then that ever happening.

[Easayia]

Regarding the “it took 8 years to get a proper summoner” argument. I doubt SMN will have as much praise as its hype gives it. It’s shallowness has been well documented and is a hot topic right now since they didn’t even try to meld the two aspects together and just seems like Ruin spamming not summoning, with yet again the only 2 summons with even less control. It’s praised mostly due to it being pretty, with very very few topics about the kit at hand and if it’s about it it’s usually how straight forward and toothless it is compared to likes of DNC and MCH. If you want a rework you never liked BRD to begin with and if you never liked BRD to begin with go try other jobs rather than simplify and doll up one with the most ridiculous complaints I’ve seen.



First sentence I don’t even know what your complaining about with OGCDs, as all jobs have them. Like saying “MCH doesn’t have machines it has OGCDS!” Well yea duh…also I don’t know when you fell out of BRD but it’s songs originally regened TP and MP which are mechanics that don’t exist in the game anymore, see also Invigorate, Goad, Mana Shift ect. Having said this even it’s first incarnation in 2.0 was heavily Archery with stuff like Wide volley, flame arrow, quelling strikes, Hawkeye and how straight arrow used to work. Hence why I rather focus on improving on what the devs have it at now than back then

I won’t disagree with your opinions on BRD as job identity is very important to me, but mechanical depth in rangers is a loosing game with how skewered bard is it’s still more depthful than MCH and DNC, and is spilling over to Magical ranged now that SMN is more flare than function. Which normally I agree with when talking to BRD mains…but theirs a very distinct difference between them and you

I won’t judge Radiant Finale until launch and I’ve seen lazier skills tbh, but it’s more flexible than divination which doesn’t even exist anymore and can be said is a “lazy rehash of <insert Generic buff skills with 120 seconds here> skill”

1. Yes

2. Sums up my opinion if you want Bard Reworked you never liked Bard in the first place.

[Easayia]

This is why I want them to release a ranger job so both class fantasies are covered.



I care about the job's aesthetic and feel and Bard currently looks bad, and its gameplay would be much improved by giving its songs more strength. Since it's literally called a "Bard." That's why I and many others want to see things like Foe Requiem return.



Rangers and Thieves especially are still wanted by a non-insignificant number of people. A ranger or hunter is a prominent class in WoW, where they use bows, traps, poisons, pets, etc. Like I'd expect an archer class to. Thieves are another common archtype that a lot of people gravitate towards but Yoship for whatever reason said the class was not "heroic" or worthy of the warrior of light or something along those lines. Frankly I disagree with him completely since if the wol is too "good" to be a thief, then why is Reaper a thing?? A mystic knight/fencer is also something people want and ask for regularly as well.

The notion that an Archer/Ranger could not stand alone as its own thing is laughable, given how many games have classes just like it. In any case I cannot wait for Bard to receive it's eventual rework once the devs realize that there's no way forward here without something giving way: the songs, or the excessive focus on archery and arrow magic.

"I care about the job's aesthetic and feel and Bard currently looks bad, and its gameplay would be much improved by giving its songs more strength."

You never liked Bard in FFXIV to begin with your asking for a new job entirely which is not needed. you have plenty of other jobs to play for a playstyle you prefer.

[Rika007]

There isn't any class confusion when it comes to Dancer. Each attack is in some way shape or form, a dance move, looks good, and gets the point across. Bard has 3, max 4 song skills that are actually used. And then 20 arcane ranger skills.

There is only class confusion right now because of the issues of 5.0 BRD. There was never confusion of class before, and the dev team is addressing that with the jobs new additions. Also I'm gonna very much disagree on EVERY move of dancer being a Dance move when most of their single target GCD attacks look straight out of Xena warrior princess. Also your number is wrong, as there is 6 abilities that a good Bard uses regularly in combat that have an animation that is 'song like', and there will be 7 when radiant finale is added.

I do not believe for a second that the people who claim to be so in love with Bard as it is now make up a greater number than the two (separate) groups of people who want to play either a dedicated Archer/Ranger or a dedicated Bard. I know when I first tried this game back in 2013 I dropped Archer immediately after I discovered I would be forced to become a Bard, because at the time I had no interest in what I thought was a weird mishmash.

I mean the issue is there is no way to prove that but its pretty easy to see that when the hybrid is done right people are perfectly happy with it, because we already have the numbers. Bard was bar none, the most played job in all of Stormblood at pretty much all levels and in every job satisfaction poll done by the community Bard was at the top. The rework from Heavensward was lauded and adored almost universally. And the current changes to the job coming into Endwalker seem aimed at recapturing that.

8 years later, the mishmash job has now lost 99% of its support functions and whenever I want to play support, my options are either Astro or Dancer. Actually wait-add Red Mage onto the list to. Because Red Mage's buff is more powerful than any of Bard's songs. Instead of a class that buffs the party with songs in almost every video game its appeared in. I do not understand why some people insist on viewing these classes in a vacuum "because they're unique!" when the reality is that some things just really are that straightforward.

Well congrats cause you will now have another option. Because while current BRD rDPS isn't as good as Dancers, the combination of Songs and Battle voice, while not exactly the most exciting, were NEVER bad amounts of utility, just not the most engaging. Going into Endwalker Bards KEPT that level of support and ADDED Radiant Finale while Battle Voice got buffed on it's cool down. BRD may not still beat out Dancer, but the gap is going to be tiny. And it will outclass Red Mage's level of support by a mile.

An archer should use arrows and all sorts of skills of that nature. A bard should be able to sing more than 3 songs (and actually hear its own songs too).

The dev team actually said they are still debating on letting BRD's hear it's own songs. So keep giving that feedback.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Cmon, that is reaching.
So are you satisfied if Bards hum some tunes during the three songs?

If Bards used the harps and flutes they wrest out of thin air more frequently than they do I would be a lot less indignant toward Bard.

Bloodletter, for example (which is still an animation from 2.0 btw), could have been upgraded/updated with that level 84 trait to a more musically inclined theme/visual, but alas, it is still that really old looking visual. Pitch Perfect same thing, strum/play random instrument instead of bow magic. Could have also made Bard strum a harp for Apex Arrow (which has harp sfx) and Blast Arrow. Rename Apex Arrow to Apex Cadence and Blast Arrow to ___ Cadenza and there we go, Bard's theme of magic archer married with musician fixed without uprooting the job in its entirety.

I won’t judge Radiant Finale until launch and I’ve seen lazier skills tbh, but it’s more flexible than divination which doesn’t even exist anymore and can be said is a “lazy rehash of <insert Generic buff skills with 120 seconds here> skill”

That moment when Endwalker Divination is a better version of Radiant Finale in every way. Astro will no longer need to navigate an obstacle course for Divination which will be a static 6% damage increase, if media tour potencies are unchanged in live, and 120s cooldown which syncs with the 60/120 raid timers but Bard with the really awkward 90s timer and 45 second song duration will need to. But you have Battle Voice which will be reduced to a 120 cooldown and have no strings attached (but won't benefit the Warriors in your party)...so yay? Also Dancer's Technical Finish is a 120 second cooldown, will always sync for 60/120 raid timers and will always have the 5% damage increase, RDM's Embolden is being buffed to affect all damage, SMN's Searing Light lasts a whopping 30 seconds, in media tour potency, and both can be used instantly without any prerequisites. Radiant Finale lookin' great and flexible when you'll almost exclusively use it during Mage's Ballad especially if there is a warrior, or any job that has auto crits/DHs baked into their kit, in your party. Not really sure what world you're on if you can't already see the problem Radiant Finale has on paper.

Why should Bard be punished with a janky raid buff when RDM, SMN, DNC and Astro can just fire off Embolden, Searing Light, Technical Finish and Divination with any hurdles?

I can already foresee codas being removed and Radiant Finale becoming a static 4% damage increase generic 120 second cooldown that you'll exclusively use during Mage's Ballad or Wanderer's Minuet but never Army's Meme if Bard is underperforming or outclassed by DNC. Or changed to a pbAoE that puts a mini Trick Attack on all nearby enemies like old Foe's Requiem. Here's to hoping Bard is not destroyed by Dancer or, the gods' forbid, a double caster meta, in Endwalker because the danger of that happening is there.

[Jirah]

snip

I’ll say this I am all for better musical animations, I mean peloton flute crap is recycled for Troubadour and Minne 3 skills! 1 of which is a role skill. Paean is fine as is tbh just horribly reflects the Aliment-less gameplay, it’s like having a spell that reduced eminty these days. I’m so pissed paeon is unchanged, would say more but I believe we already are really off topic as this isn’t a Bard mega thread full of issues and solutions


BRD like every job in the game is worthy, every job has its critiques and should be taken with a grain of salt until you experience it yourself. Play what you want

[Rika007]

That moment when Endwalker Divination is a better version of Radiant Finale in every way. Astro will no longer need to navigate an obstacle course for Divination which will be a static 6% damage increase, if media tour potencies are unchanged in live, and 120s cooldown which syncs with the 60/120 raid timers but Bard with the really awkward 90s timer and 45 second song duration will need to. But you have Battle Voice which will be reduced to a 120 cooldown and have no strings attached (but won't benefit the Warriors in your party)...so yay? Also Dancer's Technical Finish is a 120 second cooldown, will always sync for 60/120 raid timers and will always have the 5% damage increase, RDM's Embolden is being buffed to affect all damage, SMN's Searing Light lasts a whopping 30 seconds, in media tour potency, and both can be used instantly without any prerequisites. Radiant Finale lookin' great and flexible when you'll almost exclusively use it during Mage's Ballad especially if there is a warrior, or any job that has auto crits/DHs baked into their kit, in your party. Not really sure what world you're on if you can't already see the problem Radiant Finale has on paper.

Why should Bard be punished with a janky raid buff when RDM, SMN, DNC and Astro can just fire off Embolden, Searing Light, Technical Finish and Divination with any hurdles?

I can already foresee codas being removed and Radiant Finale becoming a static 4% damage increase generic 120 second cooldown that you'll exclusively use during Mage's Ballad or Wanderer's Minuet but never Army's Meme if Bard is underperforming or outclassed by DNC. Or changed to a pbAoE that puts a mini Trick Attack on all nearby enemies like old Foe's Requiem. Here's to hoping Bard is not destroyed by Dancer or, the gods' forbid, a double caster meta, in Endwalker because the danger of that happening is there.

I'm gonna need to see your math on what's making you so sure about all these claims on Radiant Finale, when even the best Bard theory crafters are still debating on Radiant Finale's best uses, and currently can only come up with "It will depend more on fight and kill timings then it will on team comps". Cause if you got some math to back these claims up then there are probably a bunch of statics who would love to speak with you on it.