RNG

[RinaB]

Can we please get rid of this outdated, insulting waste of players time? When I go to work and build mech rooms etc i don't roll a dice to see if the system runs properly. When I go to a grocery store I don't roll a dice against 8 other people to see who gets the cucumber. I have no problem working for tomestones or raid coins to augment and get the gear I need so why is it in eden and crafting things we are subjected to this horribly outdated design in which to keep you playing longer. Despite what some people say, RNG sucks and nobody wants to have to run the same fucking raids over and over and over and over for a chance at getting a loot token. This is especially insulting when you can get 530 gear by simply putting in the work. So why are the 8 man's different? It's just shit game design and needs to be gone for good in every area of the game. Hell, even in normal dungeons the likelihood of you being in a group with someone who can use or need the piece you want is almost non existent and the game will give you a damn piece on completion. So once again, why are 8 man's subject to this bullshit?

[Kes13a]

yup, it sucks.

but I dont see it disappearing from game design... probably ever.

so, not going to lie, but you better get used to it.

[TheMightyMollusk]

to keep you playing longer. ?

You've answered your own question. It's a subscription-based game. The whole point is to keep people playing and paying.

[Alxyzntlct]

I agree with this 100%; RNG as a reward mechanism is absolutely not a good methodology to maintain, much less attempt to capitalize on in order to garner more play time.

Before I dig into my explanation of why, I feel the need to correct a fallacy I see folks post frequently on these forums:

"RNG is RNG."

No. No it's not. Want to know why? Because technically "random" doesn't exist. It's not some natural phenomenon like water being wet or the rotation of the stars across the sky. Believe it or not, "random" is a perception. Only a perception. With enough data, literally anything can be determined, so anything that appears to be "random" is just perceived that way due to a lack of understanding of all contributing factors.

What then makes this whole "Random Number Generation" so frustrating is that it is 100% controllable, because it's generated via complex algorithms that define what the "random" parameters are supposed to be. Las Vegas is amazing at this because they've learned to walk the fine line between rewarding and punishing that addictive habit of seeking a big win...

Which leads to why I don't like RNG at all: It's a mechanic specifically designed to push players toward repeat playing (which isn't bad unto itself), but can quickly become a predatory tool depending on how sever the "randomness" is set to. And in the last several years, it seems more and more games are hoping to capitalize on "randomness" to push player interaction.

Now this game is better than most, I'll admit that, but I've already seen a few instances of RNG that are insane, and already has me backing away from repeat playing of some content. For example, I wanted the Fending chestpiece from the Skalla dungeon. Want to guess how many runs it took for me to get it? Yeah, 100+. I literally stopped counting after 100 because it was just asinine to me that it was even taking that long. NOTHING should require that many runs to complete in a video game.

What winds up happening at that point is there isn't a sense of joy upon getting the item, just a sad sense of relief of NOT having to do "that thing" anymore, which then leads to saltiness of ever having to repeat that content later due to DF runs.

Especially when this game already has a lot of much, much better systems in place. In some ways the Duty Finder is an excellent example of how rewarding the players in different ways to run old content can be extremely beneficial, as it allows players to partake in a variety of content to work toward an end goal, rather than having to grind their soul against the edge of some random chance of hope. Working towards acquiring items, tomes, etc. is already done in a lot of places and while sometimes the grinds can be hefty (I'm looking at you, Resistance weapon), at least that still felt satisfying upon completion!

Although there is still the issue of some players already having completed said content many, many times before, likely due to RNG hunting so they're now burnt out on running that content again, but I addressed that earlier already, lol

Either way, once again I have to agree with the OP; RNG is not a good "entertainment" mechanic to maintain in a video game. This game is already better than most by being thoughtful of how it affects its players, so I hope consideration is taken to tone down further uses of RNG and maybe even someday remove it altogether as we already know there are much nicer ways to maintain player interest and retention than through cheap "random" tactics.

[Lanadra]

You've answered your own question. It's a subscription-based game. The whole point is to keep people playing and paying.

And on this front FFXIV really isn't even all that aggressive. The worst is basic MMO loot design and timegates on the latest raids, the former only being 'bad' if you hate it, as OP clearly does. That's outright saintly compared to what WoW gets up to when it comes to 'keep people playing and paying'.

[Kes13a]

Either way, once again I have to agree with the OP; RNG is not a good "entertainment" mechanic to maintain in a video game. This game is already better than most by being thoughtful of how it affects its players, so I hope consideration is taken to tone down further uses of RNG and maybe even someday remove it altogether as we already know there are much nicer ways to maintain player interest and retention than through cheap "random" tactics.

I really doubt you will find any player anywhere that has EVER said this is a good system.

yet, they still use it, and I dont see them changing that usage, hated mechanic or not. the rng here is bad, but not oppressive like in some games. might they one day come up with a better system, one hopes so, but I am not going to get frothy at the mouth over it, since its well about my pay grade as they say.

[Vrankyl]

Can we please get rid of this outdated, insulting waste of players time? When I go to work and build mech rooms etc i don't roll a dice to see if the system runs properly. When I go to a grocery store I don't roll a dice against 8 other people to see who gets the cucumber. I have no problem working for tomestones or raid coins to augment and get the gear I need so why is it in eden and crafting things we are subjected to this horribly outdated design in which to keep you playing longer. Despite what some people say, RNG sucks and nobody wants to have to run the same fucking raids over and over and over and over for a chance at getting a loot token. This is especially insulting when you can get 530 gear by simply putting in the work. So why are the 8 man's different? It's just shit game design and needs to be gone for good in every area of the game. Hell, even in normal dungeons the likelihood of you being in a group with someone who can use or need the piece you want is almost non existent and the game will give you a damn piece on completion. So once again, why are 8 man's subject to this bullshit?

The 8 mans are different though. Savage you get an automatic drop of a currency to buy gear and extreme trials do the same thing as well. The only 8 mans that don't do this are the normal ones and that is because well, it's really not needed. From a progression stand point normal mode raid loot has a very short life span and is set to prevent it from being out right abused by Savage raiders to gear for the raids when they first drop. Other than that it serves a purpose for glam, which the more you run it the easier it is for new players to run. Yes, RNG can suck. I would give anything for the max lvl dungeons to have the same RNG protection that the leveling ones do and perhaps the normal mode raids could use some though the fact that it is tokens and not the gear item itself like the 24 mans is protection enough. The only places where full old school RNG MMO loot takes place is 24 man raids and level cap dungeons.

[DrWho2010]

i mean if they just gave you everything and you didn't have to keep at it, then they wouldn't be keeping people playing as much.

[Jeeqbit]

I don't mind some RNG, it just shouldn't be too rare, it should be low such as a 1 in 5 chance. Most RNG in this game is not that rare but there are exceptions, like minions, which you can buy on the market board instead or trial mounts which let you buy it after 99 runs. There was also TT but this got nerfed recently.

[RinaB]

i mean if they just gave you everything and you didn't have to keep at it, then they wouldn't be keeping people playing as much.

Like I said. I'm not asking to be handed anything. Instead of purely rng theres no reason not to simply add ways of obtaining xyz by another means. For example if you want the striking boots from paradigm and they either never drop or you always lose the roll, why not have every boss drop an item that when you've collected enough can just buy the boots. That way they can satisfy the player while still keeping them playing. I dont have a problem with work (God knows I work enough irl), what I have a problem with is working for potentially nothing. I will agree that 14 isn't that bad compared to other mmos but the system being used as the only way to obtain things is garbage.