I'm gonna say it. cause no one else will.

[Nizzi]

Continually ignoring everything that people are responding to you that shows you you're wrong/misinformed = not trolling. Alright.

Correct, I disagree with you without reading why you think changes are needed.

Considering someone who admits to not reading peoples posts and disagrees with everyone who thinks differently than them without even acknowledging what they're saying as a troll? "Very telling."

[Drkdays]

Incorrect again. I'm not disagreeing with anyone in particular (except those who'd like to claim savage content is so easy you only need to actually heal 1/4 of the entire fight (what a perfect group with flawless technique that must be (which is hardly a standard by which to judge average play in any case))), rather, I am now, as ever, disagreeing with everyone saying there should be a fundamental change to healing, and noting that all the posts that weren't spent bashing anyone who said the equivalent of "things are fine" were generally saying single target damage is too boring and that a greater dps option is clearly the only solution and the only one anyone really wants.

To which I reply, again, things are fine. I'm perfectly at liberty to walk into a room and say I don't agree before hearing the argument and nothing I've read of responses to me has made much difference in that.

Throw statistics at me like it's courtroom proof, it doesn't matter. They shelf is made low enough for everyone to reach and I think that's just fine.

And for those who actually pay attention, I have conceded that it would not be a bad thing if healers had more to do during so-called downtime, such as buffs, BUT NOT ADDED DPS, rotations or otherwise.

TLDR: NOT ADDED DPS. Which is, in summary, support of the OP's first few sentences. "Trolling" how feeble-minded.


And as for those claiming I've been breaking terms of service and should be banned or something, you only get banned if you make direct attacks on people, which I would never do because, you know, it's rude.

In any case, it's become clear to me that this debate has devolved into nothing more than bitter sniping without any clear consensus, where one side comes to agree whole-heartedly with the other side, and apparently never will despite each side having merit. Both sides cannot agree that a change is needed and therefor, logically, none of the desired change could please everyone. That's a fact and that's the end of it for me.

G'day.

[Nizzi]

Why should people pay attention to what you're saying when you won't pay attention to what any of us are saying?

[FoxCh40s]

Incorrect again. I'm not disagreeing with anyone in particular (except those who'd like to claim savage content is so easy you only need to actually heal 1/4 of the entire fight (what a perfect group with flawless technique that must be (which is hardly a standard by which to judge average play in any case))), rather, I am now, as ever, disagreeing with everyone saying there should be a fundamental change to healing, and noting that all the posts that weren't spent bashing anyone who said the equivalent of "things are fine" were generally saying single target damage is too boring and that a greater dps option is clearly the only solution and the only one anyone really wants.

To which I reply, again, things are fine. I'm perfectly at liberty to walk into a room and say I don't agree before hearing the argument and nothing I've read of responses to me has made much difference in that.

Throw statistics at me like it's courtroom proof, it doesn't matter. They shelf is made low enough for everyone to reach and I think that's just fine.

And for those who actually pay attention, I have conceded that it would not be a bad thing if healers had more to do during so-called downtime, such as buffs, BUT NOT ADDED DPS, rotations or otherwise.

TLDR: NOT ADDED DPS. Which is, in summary, support of the OP's first few sentences. "Trolling" how feeble-minded.


And as for those claiming I've been breaking terms of service and should be banned or something, you only get banned if you make direct attacks on people, which I would never do because, you know, it's rude.

In any case, it's become clear to me that this debate has devolved into nothing more than bitter sniping without any clear consensus, where one side comes to agree whole-heartedly with the other side, and apparently never will despite each side having merit. Both sides cannot agree that a change is needed and therefor, logically, none of the desired change could please everyone. That's a fact and that's the end of it for me.

G'day.

Then get ready to be continually berated and not listened to yourself. You are entitled to your opinion, but it is factually and numerically incorrect.

So, as you've said. G'day.

[Sebazy]

Incorrect again. I'm not disagreeing with anyone in particular (except those who'd like to claim savage content is so easy you only need to actually heal 1/4 of the entire fight (what a perfect group with flawless technique that must be (which is hardly a standard by which to judge average play in any case))), rather, I am now, as ever, disagreeing with everyone saying there should be a fundamental change to healing, and noting that all the posts that weren't spent bashing anyone who said the equivalent of "things are fine" were generally saying single target damage is too boring and that a greater dps option is clearly the only solution and the only one anyone really wants.

You are missinformed. I don't know how else I can put it.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/aNAGQ...casts&source=6

2 deaths, 2 additional DPS downs.

I cast 4.94 dps GCDs for every healing GCD in that run.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/B4QXa...casts&source=5

8 Deaths (Myself twice!), 1 additional DPS down.

I cast 4.93 dps GCDs for every healing GCD

and finally

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/dpW2b...casts&source=6

0 deaths but 2 damage downs, 1 of which was group wide.

5.25 dps GCDs for every healing GCD.

You do not need a perfect flawless group to only actually heal 1/4 of the time. These are cold hard numbers from a group that was world prog level 6 years ago but is now pretty much just a retirement home. Your arguments are based on facts that simply aren't true.

*edit*

To further clarify the issue with your views on this. Failures in Savage don't actually really cause that much more additional healing. Generally you'll either get away with it in which case at worst you'll cost a healer a GCD or at best it'll make precisely no difference as the next Soil/Asylum will likely get you topped before the next AoE anyway. More likely what'll happen is you'll simply die, in which case you'll cost a healer 2 GCDs, one to raise, one to throw a Regen or Cure II at you (again, if that's even needed). Make a mistake during a key mechanic or too consistently and you'll simply force a wipe or enrage. /shrug.

I'd actually argue that dungeons and 24 man are marginally more costly because it's entirely possible to survive multiple failures and start building up vuln stacks. But of course, that is countered by our healing kits being monumentally overtuned for this kind of content.

The end result is that eh. It doesn't make nearly as a big a difference as you might expect. What *does* make the difference is how efficiently you are able to react to other people's mistakes.

[Aword3213]

I also can't seem to remember. Even in Ragnarok Online, I could:
- heal
- regen people's mp
- bless them to have better attributes
- make a barrier around them, so they can tank more
- put a shield under them
- kill undead mobs with heal
- make a purely-exorcist build and still be able to heal

pure support priest, one of the best design I've ever played. All of my skill points were invested in supportive abilities. I was always very busy casting all sorts of buffs when not healing. Fun times

[Semirhage]

I did a Paglth'an run the other night to show one of my newer player friends how easy healing is in this game. I died once because I turned my head at the wrong moment and ran through three missiles, which was hilarious. The group still cleared the boss despite needing about 60 more seconds without me.

We tallied up the casts at the end of the run. The dragoon ate a few vulnerability stacks so I had to use one Cure 2. ONE. In the entire dungeon with randoms. "Perfect static party where everything goes right" yeah, pull the other leg.

[Sebazy]

pure support priest, one of the best design I've ever played. All of my skill points were invested in supportive abilities. I was always very busy casting all sorts of buffs when not healing. Fun times

It truly boggles my mind that SE haven't properly explored this as a route for one of the healers to go down =/

[VictoriaLuv]

It truly boggles my mind that SE haven't properly explored this as a route for one of the healers to go down =/

that because majority of the player base. think buffs are overpowered. people talkin about this back in realm reborn. often shunned made fun off laughed off the forums. funny cause 3-4 expansions later that people talkin about buffs. how great idea that would be. when people ignored them in the past we are in sitation we are now

we also have people cry that aquaviel just a bad tank helper so what happens if they add more buffs to the healers. ast has alot buffs already scholar has chain stratigem. aquaviel needs buffs it only 5% damage increase higher the ast and ast has 500+ potency heal attached to it... op much

[Melorie]

pure support priest, one of the best design I've ever played. All of my skill points were invested in supportive abilities. I was always very busy casting all sorts of buffs when not healing. Fun times

Easily one of my favorite supports I've ever played! I think I never touched again a support class that had THAT amount of support to be honest! It definitely helped me to grow my love for healing/support classes in all sorts of games.
Also bard/dancer, sage and alchemist were fascinating as well. RO had a bunch of problems but a very interesting class design.