Endwalker summoner question

[Risvertasashi]

I have a question I'm wondering if folks here can help with. Summoner rotation is one of those I never understood very well until I did it and so I'm looking for a little help understanding the new one as well.

As you'll probably have noted if you read the tooltips for the new summoner, Ruin 4 - while not gone - has been nerfed to pretty much oblivion. That is, specifically, now it grants very little mobility.

However, to offset that, one of the new primal phases is mobility focused, and there seems to be a fair number of new instants in general - but I'm not so clear on how it all fits together, exactly.

So, my question to those that understand the new rotation better - how much is the new summoner's mobility tied to specific phases? Does it have OK/good "general mobility"/mobility options outside of specific phases?

[VictoriaLuv]

over all its rotation is still somewhat big. you have different phases you go in have your bahamut/phoenix phase. then have elemental primal phases inbetween them. each primal does something different

Bahamut
Garada - aoe damage and ground aoe dot like thing
titan - rapid dps
Ifirit - big damage numbers/gap closer
Pheniox

summoner experence to me overall fun. each time you summon each of the primals they will enkindle doing big aoe damage. this will make summoner out scale blackmage when it comes to aoe damage vs elemental weaknesses

this gives summoner classic final fantasy feel when summon something does big damage disappears while it buffs the summoner. changing elemental attributes of your spells. giving you an edge kinda. elemental resistances are somewhat a thing just dont really notice them

sooner or later they will get Shiva, Ramah. leviathan too making it into pretty nice rotation. by giving summoner elemental shift kinda feel

total 10 enkindles. big big damage
you have 2 buttons that change when you summon these you use each summon has complete total different feel and purpose

[Sunako]

Summoner mobility is overall pretty good. You have only 1.5sec cast times so you can slidecast after 1 second and move 1.5sec after each cast like Astro now. Summons are pretty flexible so you can rotate your summons based on different phases. Like, use ifrit in the phase where you don't have to do mechanics and save titan for the moving phase. For Garuda I would recommend saving swiftcast for Splitstream. You can yourself choose the order you wanna use certain summons. You just have to use everything in 45 sec before your Bahamut/Phoenix is back up.

[Risvertasashi]

Summoner mobility is overall pretty good. You have only 1.5sec cast times so you can slidecast after 1 second and move 1.5sec after each cast like Astro now.

While that's pretty good for weaving, I'd worry it would have "the red mage" problem - where sure dualcast is great for getting a bit of mobility, but starts to suck if you need to move for more than a GCD.

Whereas current ruin 4 gives you 8 GCDs of free movement every minute (separate from DWT and FBT), and while you do want to have 4 stacks going into bahamut, it's otherwise pretty free about how you use it. So I guess what I'm wondering is if the new summoner will get somewhere equivalent to 8 GCDs mobility per minute that you don't need to be in a specific primal phase for, or if you'll always have to save it for any time you might need more than a GCD or two's worth of movement...

[MercuryD]

Ruin 3 has a 1.5 cast time. All of your ruin/tri-disaster skills for both Bahamut and Phoenix are instant. All of the earth elemental spells are instant, so is mountain buster. All of the fire spells have a longer cast time, Ifrit's melee combo is instant. Garuda's Slipstream has a long cast but all your elemental spells are instant.

So effectively, we'll probably be hardcasting 3-4 spells a minute depending on swiftcast availability

[HyperiusUltima]

While that's pretty good for weaving, I'd worry it would have "the red mage" problem - where sure dualcast is great for getting a bit of mobility, but starts to suck if you need to move for more than a GCD.

Whereas current ruin 4 gives you 8 GCDs of free movement every minute (separate from DWT and FBT), and while you do want to have 4 stacks going into bahamut, it's otherwise pretty free about how you use it. So I guess what I'm wondering is if the new summoner will get somewhere equivalent to 8 GCDs mobility per minute that you don't need to be in a specific primal phase for, or if you'll always have to save it for any time you might need more than a GCD or two's worth of movement...

From what I read about the SMN abilities in general, it seems more like your Attunements are what give you your mobility going into EW, similar to how Egis and Ruin 4 did. I think generally they were playing with this kind of system with Phoenix to see if it was feasible to work with before changing it up after 5.2 with the Egi Rework during Titan Savage days.

[Equitable_Remedy]

but starts to suck if you need to move for more than a GCD.

This is called "playing a caster."

Join us on #TeamMelee, brother!

[Risvertasashi]

This is called "playing a caster."

Join us on #TeamMelee, brother!

Sorry, I'll always be some kind of ranged at heart. If SMN ends up too hardcasty, I'll just go back to physical ranged.

But it sounds like there won't be too much of it, so there is yet hope.

[zcrash970]

So with new 6.0, you will have phrases of mobility. Mainly during titan and your demi summons phrases.
You also get movement during your summons also since they are instant and on the gcd.
Depending on final potency, we will either hold ruin4 for movement, use it during our opener/burst window, or not use it at all if we don't need to move.
The same thing with Titan. While at the moment it is the strongest single target DPS, it is the most mobile of the phrases, and since most raid bosses do a raid aoe follow by a movement mechanic, we will rarely use titan in the opener.

What you want to think of 6.0 smn is much like blm. Instead of the logic of using triplecast and procs, we will be applying that logic to our summons.
So you're going to change the rotations of your summons each minute to maintain uptime and movement when needed.
Smn is still more mobile since demi phrases are nothing but instant casts and you should never delay those.

[Risvertasashi]

So with new 6.0, you will have phrases of mobility. Mainly during titan and your demi summons phrases.
You also get movement during your summons also since they are instant and on the gcd.
Depending on final potency, we will either hold ruin4 for movement, use it during our opener/burst window, or not use it at all if we don't need to move.
The same thing with Titan. While at the moment it is the strongest single target DPS, it is the most mobile of the phrases, and since most raid bosses do a raid aoe follow by a movement mechanic, we will rarely use titan in the opener.

What you want to think of 6.0 smn is much like blm. Instead of the logic of using triplecast and procs, we will be applying that logic to our summons.
So you're going to change the rotations of your summons each minute to maintain uptime and movement when needed.
Smn is still more mobile since demi phrases are nothing but instant casts and you should never delay those.

Well, that's a bit disappointing. But hopefully there's enough of it that it won't feel too bad for me. Anyways, thanks for explaining in detail.