Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[MagiusNecros]

Probably potency changes. Albeit very slight. I think Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Bahamut, Phoenix, Carbuncle are all the summons SMN is getting in 6.0 which honestly is pretty nice. If we get Shiva, Ramuh, Levi I imagine it would chain off of Phoenix.

Or they just offer summon glamour to change ITG into different summons.

[Manamaru]

The more I stew about the SMN change, the saltier I get about it. End Walker carbuncle is basically , a glorified double minion.

SMN's "big summon" move to activate whatever elemental phase is recycled HoH's magicite, just reduced to a single target or smaller AOE.
Pet System is stripped away, and any remnants of it are still on SCH until Squenix decides to find a way to butcher that system.
Redundant, but my only hope at this point for a return of that pet system is it being put into a limited job like Beast Tamer.

[MercuryD]

I expect the only change aside from potencies we may get would be maybe Carby autoattacking but even that seems unlikely at least until maybe Pandaemonium is out

[MagiusNecros]

I don't see Carbuncle attacking again being likely because the devs have the choices of making the Summon skills more beefy and impactful by sacrificing both DoTs and Pet autos or making summon attacks do less damage while your pet autos.

Personally I'm fine with losing our glorified DoT in Carbuncle/Egi because it puts all of the SMN's damage under complete player control which I am all for.

[ShaolinMike]

To be fair, Carbuncle has traditionally just been a support summon. Having it do damage was a departure from the norm, so they're just returning it back to its form from the other games.

[rewd]

To be fair, Carbuncle has traditionally just been a support summon. Having it do damage was a departure from the norm, so they're just returning it back to its form from the other games.

The game is called Final Fantasy XIV, not Final Fantasy The Norm. They can and should take some freedom when it comes to job design (as they already did, many times, with plenty of jobs).

A norm, when it comes to Summoner, doesn't exist. Summoners work in different ways in different games. The only thing they have in common is - not suprisingly - that they summon things.

People always liked to use FFXI as an argument as to why XIV's SMN is 'wrong' because it was missing XI's big summons. I'm sure the same people aren't using XI as an argument as to why Carbuncle needs to attack again, although that's what it does in XI too. Weird, uh.

Not to mention that new SMN is far from the 'norm' too, unless we want to act like a summoner becoming a geomancer is how it has always worked in Final Fantasy.

"Classic FF summoner", "norm" and all that are arguments that should have died a long time ago.

[aveyond-dreams]

The game is called Final Fantasy XIV, not Final Fantasy The Norm. They can and should take some freedom when it comes to job design (as they already did, many times, with plenty of jobs).

A norm, when it comes to Summoner, doesn't exist. Summoners work in different ways in different games. The only thing they have in common is - not suprisingly - that they summon things.

People always liked to use FFXI as an argument as to why XIV's SMN is 'wrong' because it was missing XI's big summons. I'm sure the same people aren't using XI as an argument as to why Carbuncle needs to attack again, although that's what it does in XI too. Weird, uh.

Not to mention that new SMN is far from the 'norm' too, unless we want to act like a summoner becoming a geomancer is how it has always worked in Final Fantasy.

"Classic FF summoner", "norm" and all that are arguments that should have died a long time ago.

You are absolutely correct that FFXI Summoner's Carbuncle can deal damage. It can deal small amounts of damage whenever you summon him before you go on to obtain your main summons: Ifrit, Shiva, etc. His attack abilities are Poison Nails, Holy Mist, Meteorite, and Searing Light. Otherwise, he leans towards support abilities. As he has done so in the majority of his appearances. Funny how one of the more popular versions of Summoner is one of the standards people hold FFXIV's summoner to.

In any case summon magic in general has a traditional way of working wherein we summon the thing, it does the attack, and then leaves. If it works great as a pet that can hang around that's fantastic. Egis however were useless and their appearance has been a meme for the past 8 years. Why was Titan suddenly reduced to a chicken nugget when he is the God of Earth in some games? Why was poison magic dealing more damage than the actual summons, the point of the job?

We are not hurting in terms of offensive summon magic though everyone agrees that we would like to have more pets. They are probably coming in the future, now that the job has a clear and focused goal. Please look forward to it!

[rewd]

You are absolutely correct that FFXI Summoner's Carbuncle can deal damage. It can deal small amounts of damage whenever you summon him before you go on to obtain your main summons: Ifrit, Shiva, etc. His attack abilities are Poison Nails, Holy Mist, Meteorite, and Searing Light. Otherwise, he leans towards support abilities. As he has done so in the majority of his appearances. Funny how one of the more popular versions of Summoner is one of the standards people hold FFXIV's summoner to.

In any case summon magic in general has a traditional way of working wherein we summon the thing, it does the attack, and then leaves. If it works great as a pet that can hang around that's fantastic. Egis however were useless and their appearance has been a meme for the past 8 years. Why was Titan suddenly reduced to a chicken nugget when he is the God of Earth in some games? Why was poison magic dealing more damage than the actual summons, the point of the job?

We are not hurting in terms of offensive summon magic though everyone agrees that we would like to have more pets. They are probably coming in the future, now that the job has a clear and focused goal. Please look forward to it!

Which is why Carbuncle getting autoattacks again wouldn't be a problem because it would still keep the focus on supporting abilities. I don't even want autoattacks back because I care specifically about autoattacks, but because I want Carbuncle to get a better purpose. Searing Light and Radiant Aegis could very well be skills of the Summoner and not only the aesthetics of the job would be improved, but its functionally would get better too because it makes no sense that we are locked out from using two skills every time we summon.

The things you mentioned either still persist or took another form. We still have Egis (for 89 levels!) and you actually have to see all of them every time now. They should have made primals available from level 30, but instead they decided on making the job an inconsistent visual mess.

We don't have poison magic anymore, but a large portion of our damage comes from Verfire 2.0, Verstone 2.0 and Veraero 2.0 now and not the summons themselves.

[aveyond-dreams]

Which is why Carbuncle getting autoattacks again wouldn't be a problem because it would still keep the focus on supporting abilities. I don't even want autoattacks back because I care specifically about autoattacks, but because I want Carbuncle to get a better purpose. Searing Light and Radiant Aegis could very well be skills of the Summoner and not only the aesthetics of the job would be improved, but its functionally would get better too because it makes no sense that we are locked out from using two skills every time we summon.

The things you mentioned either still persist or took another form. We still have Egis (for 89 levels!) and you actually have to see all of them every time now. They should have made primals available from level 30, but instead they decided on making the job an inconsistent visual mess.

We don't have poison magic anymore, but a large portion of our damage comes from Verfire 2.0, Verstone 2.0 and Veraero 2.0 now and not the summons themselves.

The egis appear, do a thing, then get off the screen. Would it be better to get the gem summons sooner? Absolutely. However seeing as how this isn't the last FFXIV expansion we'll get to use our new gem summons for multiple rounds of levelling in 7.0 and beyond, plus the new ones which are likely on the way.

As for the new rite and catastrophe spells of course a huge chunk of damage comes from them because it is magic derived from the primals we just summoned. Bio and Miasma had little to do with anything. We build up to and cycle through the summons and get to use their magic in between. Certainly feels a lot more like Rydia than using poison magic. Thematically it's on point and I can't wait until Shiva/Leviathan/Ramuh are added into the mix.

[Kolsykol]

SMN looks really good, the one major gripe I have is the charge and melee skills from Ifrit.
Not a fan at all of melee Caster, reason why I didn't like Elementalist in Guild Wars 2.