Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[Endariel]

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This is similar to using a times table on a math test. Sure you can do the math without it but it'll be more challenging and take longer. Just because you or someone else can do it without it does not mean the act itself stops being "cheating".

You say this, but it's nothing more but training wheels.
You can either go the slightly harder way without using them, or slighter the easier way with.
Ultimately it doesn't not change your bike skills, nor the process how you ride or keep balance. All it does is alter the learning curve.

[Menriq]

Cactbot has to my experience and knowledge never been up for update first week just cause of the world first race. Generally ACT is down the first few days as well.

I think you might be mistaken. From the cactbot developer:

"Partially it depends on how fast the ffxiv plugin gets updated relative to when I run / when people hand me logs and how much free time I have and how much other people contribute. Eden's Gate came out on 2019-08-30, and e1s/e2s came out that day, e3s had something 2019-08-31, and e4s on 2019-09-01? Eden's Verse came out on 2020-02-18 and had e5s/e7s 2020-02-23, e6s/e8s 2020-02-24. Eden's Promise was 2020-12-08 and had e9s/e10s on 2020-12-09, e11s 2020-12-10, and e12s 2020-12-11?
Patches (and logs) welcome?"

So in theory, it could be updated before the first lockout is finished. I would safely bet that by this time, most WF groups are already done, but those not racing would probably be able to start using it pretty quickly.

[Sotaris]

I think you might be mistaken. From the cactbot developer:

"Partially it depends on how fast the ffxiv plugin gets updated relative to when I run / when people hand me logs and how much free time I have and how much other people contribute. Eden's Gate came out on 2019-08-30, and e1s/e2s came out that day, e3s had something 2019-08-31, and e4s on 2019-09-01? Eden's Verse came out on 2020-02-18 and had e5s/e7s 2020-02-23, e6s/e8s 2020-02-24. Eden's Promise was 2020-12-08 and had e9s/e10s on 2020-12-09, e11s 2020-12-10, and e12s 2020-12-11?
Patches (and logs) welcome?"

So in theory, it could be updated before the first lockout is finished. I would safely bet that by this time, most WF groups are already done, but those not racing would probably be able to start using it pretty quickly.

If I'm misinformed, I'll take the L.

I don't quite understand that dates, but my point was more so of cactbot wouldn't be updated when the race was on and developer comment seem to confirm that.

I also don't believe any world first racer uses cactbot in any case, since why would they need a callout when they learning the fight while racing?

[Sotaris]

No, not windower (neither Ashita), a lot of ppl use bot to exp their job point or automate reisenjima wyrm without being present. even for ENM there is an auto pop/loot coffer with rinse and repeat.
I've seen a lot of player (not RMT) using thoses bots, some friend tried to convinced me to use them because everyone does.
Some mercenary are selling Job Point too with thoses bots.
There's also a pluging that doesn't push you back when getting hit by a mechanic that should do it.
There's also some tools to teleport you anywhere even if you dont have touched it.
And some others stuffs.

You're talking about bots, bots isn't tolerated here nor in XI. They just as bad on enforcing it on both games.

[ReynTime]

You're talking about bots, bots isn't tolerated here nor in XI. They just as bad on enforcing it on both games.

Pretty sure he's just saying he thinks that could be XIV in the future given SE handles bots pretty much the same way in both games.

[Menriq]

If I'm misinformed, I'll take the L.

I don't quite understand that dates, but my point was more so of cactbot wouldn't be updated when the race was on and developer comment seem to confirm that.

I also don't believe any world first racer uses cactbot in any case, since why would they need a callout when they learning the fight while racing?

It's not so much about taking the L, but rather that the potential is there for it to be used. I've done WF / Server first racing before, and it wasn't a far stretch to watch others stream when we weren't raiding to see what other groups were doing. In WoW, the WF guilds literally have WA / addon developers on their payroll to develop what they need on the fly. I don't know much about the race here, so this is all just speculating, but I could see a WF group having someone working on triggers and what not while the group is progressing. In the same breath, I also don't think they would need it and will probably be just fine without it. Those who might not be WF, but might be going for 1st or 2nd week clears might benefit from it more. As for the dates, it breaks down like this:

EG Release: August 30th, 2019
E1S and E2S update: August 30th, 2019
E3S update: August 31st, 2019
E4S update: September 1st, 2019.

So roughly within 2 days, cactbot was updated initially for Edens gate.

[Burmecia]

I'm actually weirdly thankful to 3rd party tool using cheaters. Especially if those muppets stream or pose as some kind of world first clearing heroes.

Nothing keeps me more effectively from wasting my time with being interested in what they do.

"But even without cheats they're 100x better raider than you."

That's whole other conversation, and even then I don't really care either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sotaris]

In the same breath, I also don't think they would need it and will probably be just fine without it. Those who might not be WF, but might be going for 1st or 2nd week clears might benefit from it more.

Yep, and if they use it after 1st lockout, it's a completely different discussion.

[LittleImp]

WF racers would use it if it were available, but due to the parsing plugin being maintained more-or-less by a single person, they generally can't. It's gotten a lot faster over the years, but it still takes time for the update to come out, which occasionally exceeds the length of the words-first race.

Instead WF folks do stuff like data-mine out tooltips and fight dialogue ahead of time and try to divine what they can from that, among other things.

[LittleImp]

they should set up a streaming taskforce and go through everyone's public streams and banning every one of them who are in violation they aren't violating your privacy because you choose to share it for the whole world to see your tos breaking

The reality is that addons like these actually make them more money than they lose, for the time being. Damage parsing grants increased longevity to certain content, like it or not. I know many people who continue to raid for additional months simply because they're interested in improving their personal best on the fights. Even Cactbot probably has a positive subscriber impact in terms of getting more people to spend more time tackling hard content that they otherwise might avoid.

Yoshi-P is pretty aware of the culture around things like ACT, having played many other mmo's and is himself a very competent player. His policy around them has been shaped by that awareness, and I highly doubt we'll see a major crackdown any time soon.